MAYDAY: Undesired Glossy Finish (yes: painting figures)

[Jelly]

Good morning to you all,

Well, I think it was a matter of time for this old WWW modelling topic to get up to here… :

I had readen about this trouble well before now… but now it is happening to me.

I had almost finished with the painting of two 1:35 figures. They were painted with Vallejo Model Color. The had a really matt finish. Nice, nice, nice.

Then I decided to give them a matt varnish coat to give them protection against paint scratches and for the next weathering stage.

****: they have become satin / glossy. Absolutely undesired finish. ...

This is what I´ve done:

1.- I have used directly from the bottle, without diluting, brushed, Vallejo Matt Varnish (yes, the “standard” one): results: satin finish.


2.- In another different figure, then I´ve used Marabu Acrylic Matt varnish, without diluting, brushed, directly from the bottle: results: satin finish.


I must say that the two bottles were shacked during two or three minutes, and the room temperature was more or less 25ºC.

Vallejo Matt Varnish was two year old bottle (two years @ home, fresh room, not exposed to direct sonlight, well storaged).

Marabu Acrylic was 06 months y.o bottle (06 months @ home, fresh room, not exposed to direct sunlight, well storaged)


MAYDAY â€" MAYDAY â€" MAYDAY: by now, this incident has immobilized my figure painting.

Questions: ???

Question A: ¿What I´m doing wrong? // ¿what must I do to apply correctly a coat of matt varnish and only get a MATT finish?

Question B: ¿Could the satin finnish of my two figures got corrected to “matt status” WITHOUT having to paint them again?

Question C: Any additional idea / sugerence, guys??

Thank you all well in advance for the tech support.

I´m stuck!!!
RG

 

[Biskup]

Hi didn't use those Varnish yet.
But there might have been few thing wrong. One if they are thick then they might not have been mixed good enough. Second thing is that when you brushed you might have put a bit to thick layer causing it level it self and give rather satin then matt finish.
Try using this varnish somewhere aside and when it will give you the desired effect try to repeat it on the figures.
If you have an airbrush I think it would be easier for you to seal the figures after painting with it. You would get thinner layer and you would have more control of the varnish during painting.
Cheers
Lukasz

 

[Jelly]

Hey, Lukasz, thank you, mate

Hi didn't use those Varnish yet.
Do you mean that I throw away those bottles, right? (sorry, sometimes I can´t understand very well some phrases))

But there might have been few thing wrong. One if they are thick then they might not have been mixed good enough.
¿Do you mean mixing time, more time needed? ¿stirring the bottle with a little stick? Look, they are literally almost white in the bottle /can...

Second thing is that when you brushed you might have put a bit to thick layer causing it level it self and give rather satin then matt finish.
So Lukasz, I´m understanding that I MUST dilute them before apply them to the figure... ¿any idea about diluting proportions???

Try using this varnish somewhere aside and when it will give you the desired effect try to repeat it on the figures.
OK, I´ll do, I´ll do... take it for sure

If you have an airbrush I think it would be easier for you to seal the figures after painting with it.
Yeah, I´ve an Iwata, I´ll use it.
You would get thinner layer and you would have more control of the varnish during painting.
But, how much must I dilute the varnish, Lukasz? Any suggerence??


Cheers
Lukasz
Thank you, lad - RG

 

[Biskup]

I meant that I have those varnishes but I didn’t have a chance to use them yet. I will try them out on my Falke build.
If the paint is thick then shaking the bottle doesn’t always mix it well. So opening it and using some kind of a stirrer/ stick would be a good idea.
I’m not sure as I didn’t use this varnish and I didn’t seal paint job with a brush for a very long time so can’t help you with that. Just try to experiment on a side.
If you will use airbrush dilute the paint or varnish to the consistence of milk. If the effect is to satin or glossy for you try to spray it form a bit bigger distance.
As for sealing figures I really like Testors Lacquerers those in the bigger round bottles. If you can give them a try.
Hope it will work out with the figures and that you will show them to us soon.
Cheers M8

 

[sunsanvil]

I've used Vallejo varnishes for years and have never had anything less than perfect results with the matte. It produces a DEAD flat finish for me every time. I airbrush it though (even for something like 1/35 figures). Only for tiny touch ups do I use a brush.

At a guess I'd say Lukasz may be on to something when he suggested you might have put it on too thick. Thinning it is not really the answer, rather applying as sparing a coat as you can (thinning may help you do that but you still need to be the one controlling the amount of product on your brush).

I'm pretty confident you can resurrect your figures if you airbrush a fine, fine coat of the matte (do not dilute). I use it over top of gloss all the time with DEAD flat results.

 

[Jelly]

I've used Vallejo varnishes for years and have never had anything less than perfect results with the matte. It produces a DEAD flat finish for me every time. I airbrush it though (even for something like 1/35 figures). Only for tiny touch ups do I use a brush.

At a guess I'd say Lukasz may be on to something when he suggested you might have put it on too thick. Thinning it is not really the answer, rather applying as sparing a coat as you can (thinning may help you do that but you still need to be the one controlling the amount of product on your brush).

I'm pretty confident you can resurrect your figures if you airbrush a fine, fine coat of the matte (do not dilute). I use it over top of gloss all the time with DEAD flat results.

Ok, Sunsavil,


1.- Yo use it WITHOUT DILUTING
2.- You AIRBRUSH it.

Could you please tell me at what pressure and at what distance do you airbrush it? Just to make a test.

Thanks a lot, lads,
RG

 

[spud]

when i done my figs i misted them, i find with teh vallejo the milkyness kinds of leaves that on whatever im trying to matt. my psi as around 10

 

[sunsanvil]

Could you please tell me at what pressure and at what distance do you airbrush it? Just to make a test.

Even though its considered a "detail" airbrush, I use a Badger 105 for these varnishes, at a slightly higher pressure, about 22-25psi. I work fairly close (4" maybe? ) doing light passes.

 

[Elm City Hobbies]

Make sure you shake up the Varnish bottles very well, as the "Matt" particles will separate from the carrier (which is basically just an acrylic medium, and what you will be left with is something that is more glossy.

 

[Jelly]

Biskup, Sunsavil, Spud... I´m going to make different experiments with the specific guidance you´re giving me. Just today I won´t be able, and tomorrow I know I will arrive from job very late at home, and after that I´ll had to do some housework / chores ( eaaaj) . I think that I´ll put my hands over the "experiments" on Friday.

Dear Scott (Elm C.H.) ... I´ve shaken either the varnish bottle or pot over two or three minutes; I´ll give´em pure rock & roll next time. What worries me about the technical explanation that you´re giving me is... can time (2 years, 1 year, 6 months) corrupt (althoug well storaged) varnishes??? Mmmmm... this could be a source of troubles... +

I will report with the results.
Thank you very - very much, lads,
RG

 

[Tony lee]

Roberto I use the Testors brand satin and matt in the spray can.
Shake it till my arm feels like it going to fall off, hold the can about 10 or 12 inches away from object and shoot quick light passes letting it flash dry between coats.

The particles have to stay suspended in the carrier. If you spray a wet coat the particle will settle out and the carried will still reflect the light and you get shine.

Hope this helps you out a little
Tony lee

 

[Elm City Hobbies]

Age of the paint shouldn't mean anything, least with Vallejo....I have some paint here that is 8-10 yrs old and is the same as the day I bought it (less of it of course).

 

[Jelly]

TROUBLE SOLVED: Undesired Glossy Finish GONE (yes: painting figures)

Good morning to you all,

TROUBLE SOLVED,

and really quickly and easily.

Test Nº1: appy MATT VARNISH and get a MATT SURFACE:

* I´ve taken a piece of accessories (some backpacks, blankets & so), painted vith Vallejo Model Color, really flat. Then took a bottle os vallejo Matt Varnish, shaken well, put it directly on the airbrush, set pressure @ 20-25 psi (almost 2 bar), airspray in short bursts, distance 10" - 12" (25 cmm - 30 cm).

Results: perfect. Dead flat finish, zero glossy.

Test Nº2: appy MATT VARNISH and to transform a GLOSSY SURFACE into a MATT SURFACE:
Procceeding exactly like in Test Nº1. I needed more or less three (3) passes ( maybe it would have work with two passes, but this was an "experiment"). Figures have become really matt.

The experiment has been an absolute success.

Next, I will try the same with Marabu, but I´m "worried" because Marabu is really thick, not so fluid like the Vallejo, so maybe it won´t flow through the airbrush without diluting it .

Thank you very much to everybody about the advises.[/b] I´ll keep doing several differents experiments.
(Tony: here for me is really difficult to get Testors products... I can swim in Vallejo, Mig Products, AK Interactive, Humbrol, Tamiya and Gunze... but really difficult to get Testors).

Cheers,
RG

 

[Biskup]

Re: TROUBLE SOLVED: Undesired Glossy Finish GONE (yes: painting figures)

Hi,
Good t hear that everything turned out ok Now we are waiting for your figures .
Cheers
Lukasz

 

[Jelly]

Re: TROUBLE SOLVED: Undesired Glossy Finish GONE (yes: painting figures)

Hi,
Good t hear that everything turned out ok Now we are waiting for your figures .
Cheers
Lukasz

Thank you Lukasz, yes, now I can go on with the painting. Don´t worry, I´ll post the two guys (1:35) when finshed.

But be forewarned that I´m not a medium-high skill level modeller, ah? I won´t bring on two Frankenstein figures, but they are lightyear of the ones you do...

Oh, I took a look at your blog: I loved the Elve bust with green body armor (I think it is called "Elve", we call the Elfos -pronounced "hellphos" )

Cheers, Lukasz
RG

 

[RocketSilo]

Another great option is Future and Tamiya x-21 flat base(If available in your country) , you can mix any level of gloss to flat by adjusting the ratio.
and it mists very well from the airbrush

I used this on my Bf109 model as a final coat.


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[Biskup]

Thanks Jelly, I won with this elf 2nd on this year’s contest . But I can bet that when you are righting something like that that your figures will be good
Cheers
Lukasz