Char B1 bis in Morocco?

[BarleyBop]

Just admiring @Wolf Star 's French Char B1 album!
https://www.scalemodeladdict.com/media/1-35-tamiya-char-b1-bis.48/

I have had my eye on this eccentric looking tank for a while, but unable to confirm if the Vichy French had any in Morocco / North Africa at the time of Operation Torch.

The moment I have confirmation, it's in my stash!

 

[Jakko]

Highly unlikely. I'm far from an expert on French tanks, but AFAIK all B1 bis tanks were deployed in France to defend against Germany. There was no tank threat to France in North Africa ca. 1940 that would have warranted deploying such heavy tanks there. After the armistice, I again doubt the Vichy government would have wanted to move heavy tanks there, for the same reason.

Taking a quick look through the Char B1 page at chars-francais.net (the site for information on French tanks), it appears to me that none of the units that had these tanks, were ever in North Africa.

 

[BarleyBop]

... so sad. I had a hunch that was the case! Thanks for the link though!

BTW, great resource! as I am interested in all of the players in North Africa, the Vichy, the Free and the Colonial French forces are all on my radar!

 

[urumomo]

The internet says , lulz , that the Germans might have shipped some captured ones there .
You could do one as a Beutepanzer .

 

[BarleyBop]

I read that there were caches of weapons in Morocco not 'declared' by the French at the time of the Armistice, probably not tanks though.
The Beutepanzer gives me hope! I guess booty was a thing even back then!

 

[urumomo]

The Germans did a lot of Beutepanzering

 

[urumomo]

I don't know if that tank made sense to ship over there though

 

[BarleyBop]

I don't know if that tank made sense to ship over there though

Meh! if the lust to build that thing overtakes, I will chock it up to fanciful, speculative self-indulgence!

 

[urumomo]

My vote is to definitely build it .
posthaste

 

[Jakko]

The internet says , lulz , that the Germans might have shipped some captured ones there .

I don't think I would trust claims like that unless they're backed up by photographs Russia, yes — North Africa, I can't think of a reason why they would.

I guess booty was a thing even back then!

The Germans took pretty much everything into service that they could, largely out of necessity because their own industry couldn't produce enough equipment. Of course, this introduced even greater logistical problems than they already had due to the poor standardisation of their home-made stuff.

 

[urumomo]

I don't think I would trust claims like that unless they're backed up by photographs

That's the reason for the included " lulz " .
I did search for any proof , but like many before me it was not found .
I also did not find proof that it didn't ever happen ,

 

[BarleyBop]

I think before I make any more purchases (although my stash is bursting at the seams, so a little late), I'm going to start a thread called 'Thinking about it' , then sit back and let you guys vet it for me!

 

[Jakko]

That's the reason for the included " lulz " .

I figured I was just elaborating.

I also did not find proof that it didn't ever happen ,

That's good enough for the Interwebz

 

[OldManModeler]

My vote is to definitely build it .
posthaste

This ^^^^. But it won't have pretty hearts on the side.

And it's not that the Char B was a bad tank. It wasn't for the time. The problem was the French military at the time had no real comms and no real skills. The Germans had comms. And the French faced the German Blitzkrieg for the first time in modern history. On a massive scale. And the Germans had experience in Spain and other places.

Plus, if you believe it, the German infantry, artillerymen, tankers, et al: Were issued cocaine. The French were issued wine, cheese and eventually: White flags.

The French trusted in in the 'Marigold Line' (sic), and crapped their pants and got soundly beat. As did the Brits but not due to pants crapping and wine. But due the Blitzkrieg plan and dedicated comms that the Germans did so very well. Hitler's first of many mistakes was Dunkirk.

I would guess that some Char B's shipped to North Africa along with Vichy Frenchmen to Morocco. Or by Germany after the Afrika Korp started and were sunk in the Med. Some may have made it there. One could label it: "Somewhere in Tunisia".

 

[urumomo]

Pretty sure the Germans were doing a bunch of amphetamines . not coke .
The Brits were using it too .
probably coke also , but I think the bulk of it was speed

 

[OldManModeler]

Pretty sure the Germans were doing a bunch of amphetamines . not coke .
The Brits were using it too .

You are right. Except the cocaine part. It wasn't called cocaine. Cocaine as produced in this modern age wasn't an illegal drug. Coka Cola had cocaine in it.

Not to sideline or hijack a valid thread. My point not so simply put, was; I'm just sayin' Char B's in North Africa is not that much of a stretch. Historically.

Be well. Model on.

Eric

 

[BarleyBop]

... and there I was thinking they were just getting by on Vichy (how ironic), Twinning's and Fruchttee!

 

[Jakko]

You are right. Except the cocaine part. It wasn't called cocaine. Cocaine as produced in this modern age wasn't an illegal drug.

Cocaine was called cocaine at the time when it wasn't an illegal drug:

Niemann described every step he took to isolate cocaine in his dissertation titled Über eine neue organische Base in den Cocablättern (On a New Organic Base in the Coca Leaves), which was published in 1860 and earned him his Ph.D. (…) Niemann named the alkaloid "cocaine" from "coca" (from Quechua "kúka") + suffix "ine".[174][175]

(my emphasis)

Amphetamines ≠ cocaine, though, and have been made and sold under many different names, which is probably what's causing the confusion here.

Coka Cola had cocaine in it.

Only until the 1920s or so, and even then it contained significantly less than it did twenty years earlier. But yes, it did contain cocaine, which it's named after.

I'm just sayin' Char B's in North Africa is not that much of a stretch. Historically.

I beg to differ But it of course makes for a plausible what-if model.

 

[OldManModeler]

RE drug use in WWII. My disclaimer is that I only 'know' what I've read in books. So take it all with a grain of salt.

 

[Jakko]

There's a joke in there somewhere, since many forms of cocaine are actually salts