Painting section...HOW TO?!?!

[BlackSheepTwoOneFour]

Oh, and as far as thinners go, I wouldn't recommend using lacquer thinner when hand-brushing, because it is very hot and can dissolve any paint you already have laid down on a piece. I know, I have tried it.

Hmmm… I've used lacquer thinner to thin acrylics and have hand brushed it on top of both acrylics and enamel paint with no issues. Maybe it's the brand of lacquer thinner you're using. Not all lacquer thinner brands are alike. Some are hotter than others.

 

[BTrekker]

Not all lacquer thinner brands are alike. Some are hotter than others.

Ya - I wouldn't use Sunnyside's regular (yellow can), but the Green Envy doesn't seem as hot.

 

[BlackSheepTwoOneFour]

Generally different for each line of paint.

Lots of factors go into it. How much air pressure you are running, size of the needle in your airbrush, the type of effect you are looking for.

For me and the paints I use, or have used.

Tamiya: 50/50 paint to thinner (using Tamiya's own thinner)

Vallejo: Model Color: 3 parts Vallejo AB Thinner to 1 part Vallejo Model Color paint.
Model Air: Should be good to go out of the bottle, but Vallejo recommends a couple of drops in your paint cup.

Testors Enamel: 50/50 with enamel thinner

Lifecolor: I have used, but only once, and don't really remember the thinning ration, seem to remember that 50/50 was too much using their thinner.

Humbrol Enamel: 50/50 with enamel thinner

Gunze Acrylics: 50/50 with acrylic thinner

That covers the basics, and for the lines I have used for general use at about average pressure (15-20psi). Finer spray control you need to drop your air pressure more and thin your paint out a bit more.

And of course, practice on an old model or piece of scrap to try out your own recipes.

This ^^^^

Some paint lines don't play nice with certain thinners - be it lacquer, enamel or acrylic. Some thin using Windex to water on certain paint brands - PollyScale comes to mind.
Like I said, lacquer thinner is usually my go-to thinner for most of my paints. You just have to experiment to see which works and which doesn't play nice with.

 

[Edbert]

I've some "Acrylic" varnish from AK (190 & 192), of course it says to use AK thinner which I did not purchase.

Should I use X-20, Testors, Vallejo, alcohol, white-spirit, water, what?

EDIT: Reason for asking, and for more detail...

• I've always used Testors Enamel vanishes before this
• I want to use the acrylic vanish (instead of Testors) to prepare for oil washes
• The surface I have to spray on is Tamiya XF

 

[BlackSheepTwoOneFour]

I use Testors enamel based gloss and flat clearcoats over AK Interactive colors.
AK Interactive like to sell folks to use their clear varnishes because they want you to spend money on their products. Screw'em… use what you have on hand. It's not going to affect the paint topcoat.

Here's the kicker when using washes…

Acrylic-based washes should go over enamels, enamel-based washes should go over acrylics. Make sense?

 

[urumomo]

" Acrylic-based washes should go over enamels, enamel-based washes should go over acrylics. Make sense? "

Nope .
Why do you think that ?

 

[urumomo]

I've some "Acrylic" varnish from AK (190 & 192), of course it says to use AK thinner which I did not purchase.

Should I use X-20, Testors, Vallejo, alcohol, white-spirit, water, what?

EDIT: Reason for asking, and for more detail...

• I've always used Testors Enamel vanishes before this
• I want to use the acrylic vanish (instead of Testors) to prepare for oil washes
• The surface I have to spray on is Tamiya XF

Why is acrylic in parenthesis ?

I don't usually need to thin the AK clears , but use a thinner like the Vallejo which is water and retarder .
white spirit is for alkyds and I don't think that resin in the AK clears are alcohol compatible but you can test that out real quick .

 

[Edbert]

Why is acrylic in parenthesis ?

I don't usually need to thin the AK clears , but use a thinner like the Vallejo which is water and retarder .
white spirit is for alkyds and I don't think that resin in the AK clears are alcohol compatible but you can test that out real quick .

I put in quotes because for 50+ years I thought acrylic mean water-based, but that is not true at all. I recently found out the hard way not to put water in Mr. Color "acrylics" so now I'm gunshy.

As to why; maybe it is just a habit, I spray super thin coats, from using enamels for so many years this was to allow faster drying. The label says it can be brushed on straight, but to use thinner if using an airbrush. Of course they suggested AK thinner.

I did test it some with alcohol (grocery store isopropyl) and can say DO NOT DO THAT. Took a while to clean out the airbrush.

With a little research it depends on which AK varnish, according to Reddit there's a 3rd generation of this product out now? I do not see anything on the label about generations, but have learned to take anything on Reddit with a few grains of salt.

With further testing, looks like water worked fine, probably lengthened the drying time but I'm resigned to waiting 24 hours anyway after my mistake with Blu-tack.

 

[Edbert]

Why do you think that ?

I think that too. WHile I am becomming more used to being wrong lately, here's the reasoning...

When spreading a layer of turpentine or white spirits on an area for a panel-line wash; I envision the thinner to attack the surface if it is enamel paint while if the surface (in all cases it would be a gloss varnish for a wash) is water based or acrylic the solvent should not attack the base coat.

What am I missing here? I trust you on all paint/chemistry topics.

 

[urumomo]

Mineral spirit will not affect cured alkyd or acrylic .


" I did test it some with alcohol (grocery store isopropyl) and can say DO NOT DO THAT. "
Haha .
nothing like empirical evidence .
Yeah , I think it depends on which clear of theirs it is .
Some may be solvent compatible .
Like I said , you can check real quick -- But not in the AB , just do it on some scrap , palette , etc.

 

[BlackSheepTwoOneFour]

I put in quotes because for 50+ years I thought acrylic mean water-based, but that is not true at all. I recently found out the hard way not to put water in Mr. Color "acrylics" so now I'm gunshy.

As to why; maybe it is just a habit, I spray super thin coats, from using enamels for so many years this was to allow faster drying. The label says it can be brushed on straight, but to use thinner if using an airbrush. Of course they suggested AK thinner.

I did test it some with alcohol (grocery store isopropyl) and can say DO NOT DO THAT. Took a while to clean out the airbrush.

With a little research it depends on which AK varnish, according to Reddit there's a 3rd generation of this product out now? I do not see anything on the label about generations, but have learned to take anything on Reddit with a few grains of salt.

With further testing, looks like water worked fine, probably lengthened the drying time but I'm resigned to waiting 24 hours anyway after my mistake with Blu-tack.

Acrylics water-base? Not always but you found out. Mr. Color is a whole different animal when it comes to thinning. They're certainly not like Gunze. I prefer Gunze over Mr. Color regardless. The only brand I learned that can be thinned with water is PollyScale and Aeromaster.

AK Interactive 3rd Generation are in dropper bottles, AK Interactive Real Colors are my go-to paints and are in glass bottles. Word out there Real Colors will soon be dropper bottles and hold 17ml of paint instead of they typical 10ml of their glass bottles. Oh yeah… they new bottles will run you about $4/bottle. Did I ever told you I hate dropper bottles? LOL!

AK Interactive shouldn't take that long to dry. I thin mine with lacquer thinner, never water.

And for God's sake… don't listen to Reddit or other non-hobby sites…..

Blu-tack… get the light blue ones, the darker blue ones have oils in them. That's probably why you had issues with them before.

 

[durangod]

i always thought it was in this order of precedence laquer, acrylic, enamel. I think i looked that up at one time.

I stick with 2 brands to make it easier. Tamiya and testors.

 

[urumomo]

 

[durangod]

I looked it up, i stand corrected

 

[BlackSheepTwoOneFour]

Check out AK Interactive Real Color paint line. That will be my go-to paint once all my Testors Model Master are gone. Airbrush wonderfully and great for handbrushing too. So is Gunze Sanyo - I have a lot of those too. Not fond of Mr. Color line (too thick out of the bottle). Both have a wide range of military colors. No more worrying about mixing colors to get that correct shade.

 

[BlackSheepTwoOneFour]

i always thought it was in this order of precedence laquer, acrylic, enamel. I think i looked that up at one time.

I stick with 2 brands to make it easier. Tamiya and testors.

Oy…. Don't sell yourself short with sticking to only two paint lines.