Scott's new mancave
- Thread starter Junkie
- Start date
hooterville75
New Member
- Joined
- Aug 26, 2012
- Messages
- 1,066
Scott Super stuff man. How did you mount the Im assuming 1 X 1s as your paint racks to the wall ? I really like your setup man. Its whicked awesome and gave me alot of ideas. Im sticking to my standard setup just a few modifications with the addition to the spray booth and sink. Super stuff man. Cant wait to see some builds from there.
hooterville75
New Member
- Joined
- Aug 26, 2012
- Messages
- 1,066
Nice nice. I like that setup. Thinking about possibly setting up some type of shelving in the side of my spray booth when finished for storing paint, therefore freeing up a childs size desk for something else in my work area. I just LOVE your setup all the way around man. If I wasnt stuck in the basement with that being my only area to work in, Id love to have a spare bathroom to setup. Guess thats what I get for moving from a 3 br 4 garage with a full basement house (Parents owened and rented to us) to buying my grandmothers (who passed away) house thats two br kitchen, bathroom, living room and washroom. This house we moved too is as big as my basement in the house we moved from ha ha. Major downside but I couldnt let my grandmothers house be sold out of the family. Oh well this is only temporary, some day Ill have the type of room I want when we build an addition on 
Will be using a ton of your ideas though when I do the addition. I just love your setup.
Will be using a ton of your ideas though when I do the addition. I just love your setup.
Jurasikfrank
What a piece of junk...
- Joined
- Mar 25, 2012
- Messages
- 184
Hey Scott!
Really cool setup ;D
I think your room sound fine but if you're to make an investment in sound treatment, I've got a few tips and tricks for you:
During your video you where referring to flutter and echo in your room. The very best way to lower this is to get rid of the corners in your room ; instead of putting foam on one of the wall as you where saying, place your pieces of foam in the corner in a 45 degree angle or so. See following image. For best results, you want to block the corners from floor to ceiling. If you're on a budget (aren't we all) you can simply replace the foam by a piece of cheap fabric held by some custom brackets of your creation (usually a 1" x1" piece of wood will do the job). Place some insulating whole behind your "curtain" and voila, you have a bass trap !
The other undesirable effect in a small room is the reverb it produces. The best way for dealing with this is understanding the mirror effect ; when you talk to the camera a part of the sound waves hits the microphone of the camera directly, but lots of it bounces off the wall just like on a mirror before reaching the microphone. If you want to put some foam or other sound treatment products on your walls, have someone hold a mirror on the wall and move it until you can see the reflection of the microphone from where you are standing/speaking. Wherever you can see the microphone in the mirror, place your sound treatment.
I hope I'm not getting too boring... it's the sound engineer in me taking over.
Oh last idea, a cheap Lavalier microphone connected directly to the camera. You find the wire annoying, go wireless
Ok guys, sorry, back to modeling ;D ;D
Cheers
Really cool setup ;D
I think your room sound fine but if you're to make an investment in sound treatment, I've got a few tips and tricks for you:
During your video you where referring to flutter and echo in your room. The very best way to lower this is to get rid of the corners in your room ; instead of putting foam on one of the wall as you where saying, place your pieces of foam in the corner in a 45 degree angle or so. See following image. For best results, you want to block the corners from floor to ceiling. If you're on a budget (aren't we all
) you can simply replace the foam by a piece of cheap fabric held by some custom brackets of your creation (usually a 1" x1" piece of wood will do the job). Place some insulating whole behind your "curtain" and voila, you have a bass trap !
The other undesirable effect in a small room is the reverb it produces. The best way for dealing with this is understanding the mirror effect ; when you talk to the camera a part of the sound waves hits the microphone of the camera directly, but lots of it bounces off the wall just like on a mirror before reaching the microphone. If you want to put some foam or other sound treatment products on your walls, have someone hold a mirror on the wall and move it until you can see the reflection of the microphone from where you are standing/speaking. Wherever you can see the microphone in the mirror, place your sound treatment.
I hope I'm not getting too boring... it's the sound engineer in me taking over.
Oh last idea, a cheap Lavalier microphone connected directly to the camera. You find the wire annoying, go wireless
Ok guys, sorry, back to modeling ;D ;D
Cheers
ceecrb1
New Member
- Joined
- Feb 3, 2012
- Messages
- 71
Hey Just though I was add in my 2p after seeing a few of the comments on youtube RE sound and lighting etc..
before we start, two things.
1st. I REALLY do NOT mean this as an attack at other peoples comments or ideas or intelligence, nor do I look to, mean to (and hope not to) cause any offence or insult.
2nd. I am a professional sound and video engineer that works in TV, live events, concerts etc and I am the head engineer of an OB truck... I'm not stating my word is law... but I have a little background and experience in this and just though I'd share some of it..
I DO NOT intend to make this sound or be like a "your all wrong" rant. Just willing to share a little advice and so on that I use on a day to day basis that might help scott or others who upload videos.
Ok, my videos on youtube have some good info. Most really talk about using DSLRs and sound as they are a little fiddly to connect well.. but my latest prooves that proper mic placement and usage is the key.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mo7DYTp-ark
Altering a rooms acustics really wont make anywhere near as much a change as getting the microphone physically nearer.. YES they would improve sound.. but it would still sound distant and its spending money on something that really is as simple as moving the microphone (if you have external mic and wire).
Basically these foams come the stage AFTER setting up the mic properly and you find you stil have bad acustics.. they are not a wonder fix.
In scotts case he has already stated the camera has no mic in... So options? an external recorder then sync up the video and audio file. Just clap your hands once before a take then align the video of the hands hitting with the noise.. you can also use the cameras inbuild audio as a refference to align the sound before you mute it out.
I use a pretty cheap zoom H1 for TV work as a backup.. usually I send a feed from my mixer bag to the camera.. but as a backup device its cheap and it does the job... may be an option for some people added with say a cheap lapel mic or as I use in my latest video... a cheap shotgun mic on a microphone stand overhead just out of shot. You can even record audio dirrectly to a computer, so you just need to buy any lapel mic with a mini jack for skype etc... Really a bad mic used well WILL sound better than an expensive mic used badly.
Lighting... There is NO problems at all mixing flurecent lighting with incandecent.. as long as you make sure the colour temperature is the same. In fact we use a LOT large pannels of flurecent lights as a key(face) light as its a nice soft even light.
Really what to google is "3 point lighting". I dont know if by accident or on purpose but scott has pretty much done exactly this... Usually one face on, one at say 45-90 degrees to your face and one from the rear to highlight the back of you and separate you from the background.
In scotts case the lighting is more than acceptable especially at the price its worked out at!
heres the first video I found on YT: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AcMX1RcNRYA
Try not to look at my videos too much, rather than listen to the advice I give... I dont like to spend too long at home adjusting for (anywhere near) perfect lighting.. Its too much like work!!
I'm happy to lend a hand and answer any questions I can.. like I say, I dont mean this to attack any other comments or posters.. just saying, its what I do and I can give some real world advice if anybody wants it.
If anybody realy has anything specific they would like me to go into I'd be happy even to make a video explanation.
before we start, two things.
1st. I REALLY do NOT mean this as an attack at other peoples comments or ideas or intelligence, nor do I look to, mean to (and hope not to) cause any offence or insult.
2nd. I am a professional sound and video engineer that works in TV, live events, concerts etc and I am the head engineer of an OB truck... I'm not stating my word is law... but I have a little background and experience in this and just though I'd share some of it..
I DO NOT intend to make this sound or be like a "your all wrong" rant. Just willing to share a little advice and so on that I use on a day to day basis that might help scott or others who upload videos.
Ok, my videos on youtube have some good info. Most really talk about using DSLRs and sound as they are a little fiddly to connect well.. but my latest prooves that proper mic placement and usage is the key.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mo7DYTp-ark
Altering a rooms acustics really wont make anywhere near as much a change as getting the microphone physically nearer.. YES they would improve sound.. but it would still sound distant and its spending money on something that really is as simple as moving the microphone (if you have external mic and wire).
Basically these foams come the stage AFTER setting up the mic properly and you find you stil have bad acustics.. they are not a wonder fix.
In scotts case he has already stated the camera has no mic in... So options? an external recorder then sync up the video and audio file. Just clap your hands once before a take then align the video of the hands hitting with the noise.. you can also use the cameras inbuild audio as a refference to align the sound before you mute it out.
I use a pretty cheap zoom H1 for TV work as a backup.. usually I send a feed from my mixer bag to the camera.. but as a backup device its cheap and it does the job... may be an option for some people added with say a cheap lapel mic or as I use in my latest video... a cheap shotgun mic on a microphone stand overhead just out of shot. You can even record audio dirrectly to a computer, so you just need to buy any lapel mic with a mini jack for skype etc... Really a bad mic used well WILL sound better than an expensive mic used badly.
Lighting... There is NO problems at all mixing flurecent lighting with incandecent.. as long as you make sure the colour temperature is the same. In fact we use a LOT large pannels of flurecent lights as a key(face) light as its a nice soft even light.
Really what to google is "3 point lighting". I dont know if by accident or on purpose but scott has pretty much done exactly this... Usually one face on, one at say 45-90 degrees to your face and one from the rear to highlight the back of you and separate you from the background.
In scotts case the lighting is more than acceptable especially at the price its worked out at!
heres the first video I found on YT: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AcMX1RcNRYA
Try not to look at my videos too much, rather than listen to the advice I give... I dont like to spend too long at home adjusting for (anywhere near) perfect lighting.. Its too much like work!!
I'm happy to lend a hand and answer any questions I can.. like I say, I dont mean this to attack any other comments or posters.. just saying, its what I do and I can give some real world advice if anybody wants it.
If anybody realy has anything specific they would like me to go into I'd be happy even to make a video explanation.
Junkie
Active Member
- Joined
- Apr 24, 2009
- Messages
- 8,830
Great info ceecrb1. Thanks for that. Don't worry, sharing experience is what this forum is all about...and it just so happens we're talking AV at the moment.
My 3 point light setup was intentional, although I think I can move the key light a bit closer next time. As for audio, I'm working on using my B2 large diaphram condensor. Hopefully I can do some tests tonight.
My 3 point light setup was intentional, although I think I can move the key light a bit closer next time. As for audio, I'm working on using my B2 large diaphram condensor. Hopefully I can do some tests tonight.
ceecrb1
New Member
- Joined
- Feb 3, 2012
- Messages
- 71
Yeah with 3 point lighting, one key idea is to make sure that they key is brighter and a little harder than the fill.... so even just reducing the intencity of the fill might have the same effect.. ie key closer or fill farther away. or bounce the fill off a wall.
Yeah that behringer mic should do the trick! The hard part is always balancing getting the mic in the right place but having the shot aesthetically pleasing.. When playing with placement dont be shy to try it while listening to yourself "live" on some headphones then you can move it around and you'll get a feel for how much a small change in position can make to the sound captured by a microphone.
I use a wireless headphone system to do just this on stage with a band... I will just send a specific mic to my headphones and then start "focusing" the microphone while a musician plays.. slight changes can make a massive difference!
As I said.. any questions or advice etc just let me know.
At least for once I am returning advice to the forum rather than just reading and taking things from it!
Colin.
Yeah that behringer mic should do the trick! The hard part is always balancing getting the mic in the right place but having the shot aesthetically pleasing.. When playing with placement dont be shy to try it while listening to yourself "live" on some headphones then you can move it around and you'll get a feel for how much a small change in position can make to the sound captured by a microphone.
I use a wireless headphone system to do just this on stage with a band... I will just send a specific mic to my headphones and then start "focusing" the microphone while a musician plays.. slight changes can make a massive difference!
As I said.. any questions or advice etc just let me know.
At least for once I am returning advice to the forum rather than just reading and taking things from it!
Colin.
Jurasikfrank
What a piece of junk...
- Joined
- Mar 25, 2012
- Messages
- 184
Hey guys,
No worries Collin, I'm 100% with eveything you said (I've actually seen your video before, very interesting!).
Can't argue that, above everything the very most important thing is microphone placement. Can't argue either that distance is crutial or that a post syncro would be the way to go. Oh, btw Scott, I'm no fan of the Auralex, not because the product isn't good, it's just too expensive for what it brings to the table (my opinion).
I'm just trying to bring some cost effective ideas that would enhance the quality of the audio without having Scott setup for 15 minutes before recording, moving the Mic around everytime he changes his working position and/or having to work another 10-15 minutes or so to post sycronizing image to sound. What I want is LOTS OF VIDEOS ;D ;D I actually don't care if it sound distant and "bathroomish" I've worked too long with state of the art and awesome vintage technology and seen the product of my labor end up on a low quality mp3 to care LOL
VIDEOS MAN I WANT VIDEOS ;D
I suggested the Lav mic 'cause you can get some very cheap (or very expensive) and they will definatly be an improvement just by reducing the distance like Collin was pointing out. Also, it would "follow you" around.
You said your camera as no Mic/In, does it have a line/In ? All you would need then would be to place your B2 on a shrt drum Mic stand, hook up your B2 mic to a cheapo preamp, point the mic to your head and hook up the line out of the preamp to your camera.
If you don't have a line/In then, post syncro seem like the best solution with the equipment you already have.
Cheers guys
No worries Collin, I'm 100% with eveything you said (I've actually seen your video before, very interesting!).
Can't argue that, above everything the very most important thing is microphone placement. Can't argue either that distance is crutial or that a post syncro would be the way to go. Oh, btw Scott, I'm no fan of the Auralex, not because the product isn't good, it's just too expensive for what it brings to the table (my opinion).
I'm just trying to bring some cost effective ideas that would enhance the quality of the audio without having Scott setup for 15 minutes before recording, moving the Mic around everytime he changes his working position and/or having to work another 10-15 minutes or so to post sycronizing image to sound. What I want is LOTS OF VIDEOS ;D ;D I actually don't care if it sound distant and "bathroomish" I've worked too long with state of the art and awesome vintage technology and seen the product of my labor end up on a low quality mp3 to care LOL
VIDEOS MAN I WANT VIDEOS ;D
I suggested the Lav mic 'cause you can get some very cheap (or very expensive
) and they will definatly be an improvement just by reducing the distance like Collin was pointing out. Also, it would "follow you" around.You said your camera as no Mic/In, does it have a line/In ? All you would need then would be to place your B2 on a shrt drum Mic stand, hook up your B2 mic to a cheapo preamp, point the mic to your head and hook up the line out of the preamp to your camera.
If you don't have a line/In then, post syncro seem like the best solution with the equipment you already have.
Cheers guys
hooterville75
New Member
- Joined
- Aug 26, 2012
- Messages
- 1,066
Scott I have a Behringers like 6 Channel Mixer I never use anymore since I quit doing the Audio Broadcasts of wrestling matches I used to do. Ill be more then happy to give it to you if you can get great use out of it in your man cave doing anything you can do with it. Choice is up to you my friend. Id be glad to send it to ya or even trade you for a couple kits or something. It was $129 brand new two years ago. Let me know and Ill get it out to ya if you can utilize it.
ceecrb1
New Member
- Joined
- Feb 3, 2012
- Messages
- 71
If you go direct to the computer... I´d really stick to a computer store bought microphone... I´ve always had weird results when I tried doing this.. never have in a profesional situation but I experimented with it at home and tbh never looked for a solution because I didnt need to... I THINK its really all about not using the mic boost feature... but the signal still ends up a little low.
IF this is the only option your willing to pay for, let me know and i'll go investigating it.
as for a "better" solution:
google a Audio Technica ATR 3350 in your area... they are cheap and acceptable.. have a small battery to power them and 6m of cable going to a mini jack that you can directly record in any mp3 recorder/dictaphone etc etc
http://www.amazon.ca/Technica-ATR-3350-Omnidirectional-Condenser-Microphone/dp/B002HJ9PTO
Check out the "Alesis TwoTrack" also as a cheap external recorder which will accept that minijack input.
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/822531-REG/Alesis_TWO_TRACK_TwoTrack_Stereo_Handheld_Audio.html
There are other recorders out there.. this is the cheapest I found with a VU meter and a jack input from a brand I would trust... As I said earlier I have the Zoom H1 which is a very little more expensive and its fine!
The next option is iphone adaptors:
This is a little more "complete"
http://www.amazon.com/TASCAM-iXZ-Instrument-input-iPhone/dp/B005NZ05J8
While this is just a straight connector that could be used with the lavelier microphone I posted earlier:
http://www.kvconnection.com/product-p/km-iphone-mic.htm
IF you can financially go for it.. I´d start off with a rode videomic or videomic pro... a minijack extension cable and an external recorder... all of this plus a boom microphone stand and use it as an overhead as I did in the video I posted earlier.. you can hear the results it gives and TBH for youtube videos where most people are watching on laptops or ipads etc etc its more than acceptable.. if this were HDtv i'd have a different opinion.
Heres a crappy iphone pic so you get the idea.
Hope this should be enough to at least give some ideas of what kind of options are available.
I DID have a rode video mic which was missing its shockmount.. I was going to modify it to accecpt a mic clip and post it to you.. but I think its been binned.
I DO have if you feel you can use it: a USB to XLR adapator that supplies phantom power to condenser microphones and then acts as a (driverless) sound card... IE its a direct mic in to a computer via usb for better quality recording.... I USED to use it for analysing sound systems on a pc spectrum analyser, but now I have a proper handheld unit I dont use this any more. With this you could connect the B2 direct to it and directly to the pc. (mxl mic mate)
[attachment deleted by admin]
IF this is the only option your willing to pay for, let me know and i'll go investigating it.
as for a "better" solution:
google a Audio Technica ATR 3350 in your area... they are cheap and acceptable.. have a small battery to power them and 6m of cable going to a mini jack that you can directly record in any mp3 recorder/dictaphone etc etc
http://www.amazon.ca/Technica-ATR-3350-Omnidirectional-Condenser-Microphone/dp/B002HJ9PTO
Check out the "Alesis TwoTrack" also as a cheap external recorder which will accept that minijack input.
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/822531-REG/Alesis_TWO_TRACK_TwoTrack_Stereo_Handheld_Audio.html
There are other recorders out there.. this is the cheapest I found with a VU meter and a jack input from a brand I would trust... As I said earlier I have the Zoom H1 which is a very little more expensive and its fine!
The next option is iphone adaptors:
This is a little more "complete"
http://www.amazon.com/TASCAM-iXZ-Instrument-input-iPhone/dp/B005NZ05J8
While this is just a straight connector that could be used with the lavelier microphone I posted earlier:
http://www.kvconnection.com/product-p/km-iphone-mic.htm
IF you can financially go for it.. I´d start off with a rode videomic or videomic pro... a minijack extension cable and an external recorder... all of this plus a boom microphone stand and use it as an overhead as I did in the video I posted earlier.. you can hear the results it gives and TBH for youtube videos where most people are watching on laptops or ipads etc etc its more than acceptable.. if this were HDtv i'd have a different opinion.
Heres a crappy iphone pic so you get the idea.
Hope this should be enough to at least give some ideas of what kind of options are available.
I DID have a rode video mic which was missing its shockmount.. I was going to modify it to accecpt a mic clip and post it to you.. but I think its been binned.
I DO have if you feel you can use it: a USB to XLR adapator that supplies phantom power to condenser microphones and then acts as a (driverless) sound card... IE its a direct mic in to a computer via usb for better quality recording.... I USED to use it for analysing sound systems on a pc spectrum analyser, but now I have a proper handheld unit I dont use this any more. With this you could connect the B2 direct to it and directly to the pc. (mxl mic mate)
[attachment deleted by admin]
Junkie
Active Member
- Joined
- Apr 24, 2009
- Messages
- 8,830
hooter...while I totally appreciate the offer man, totally, I'm gonna decline. Just want this rig to be as light weight as possible. But thank you.
Cee, thank you too. I will go with USB direct. Just less setup, gear.
And guys, thanks for the help. I shot a webcam overhead test tonight. I'll post for crit tomorrow. Not perfect, but the price is right.
Cee, thank you too. I will go with USB direct. Just less setup, gear.
And guys, thanks for the help. I shot a webcam overhead test tonight. I'll post for crit tomorrow. Not perfect, but the price is right.
Junkie
Active Member
- Joined
- Apr 24, 2009
- Messages
- 8,830
Here's a 13 second test of an older, non HD, Logitech webcam mounting above my bench. Lighting is same as earlier, just moved.
Midway I don't zoom, I move the white board towards the camera.
Prepare to be unamazed.
Test - Overhead with older Logitech Webcam.
Midway I don't zoom, I move the white board towards the camera.
Prepare to be unamazed.
Test - Overhead with older Logitech Webcam.
