Su 76 Winter Wash Project

[winterfritz]

Hi guys!!
Not many women do this, do they?
Wonder why…….
Anyway, I’m relatively new here and thought with my next build slowly appearing on the horizon I might as well start the thread ( I just got a camera).
I’m currently finishing a Dragon Panther G and when that’s done I’m onto a MiniArt Su-76 (still about a month out).
I am going to be doing it in a winter wash…………….
I’ve seen a few approaches to this and currently am leaning toward a pastel wash……..for no other reason than it looked rather simple……….
Any thoughts and input would be appreciated
(Attached is a photo of the aforementioned Panther as it is today)

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[Tony lee]

Fritz it's not that easy my friend but it's the best of what's out there.
You might read this first
http://www.perthmilitarymodelling.com/reviews/vehicles/miniart/miniart35036.html

And looking over my build here might help too
http://cs.finescale.com/FSMCS/forums/t/142978.aspx

Have Fun
Tony lee

 

[spud]

a white wash can be tricky to pull off,

will it be a worn look you are after? wich i think looks better i think. If so then the Hairspray or AK chipping fluids is prob the best way to get this effect.

 

[winterfritz]

Thanks guys……………..
Per usual, one question brings a passel more questions………..
I am building the MiniArt #35036 SU-76M…………
Okay, Tony……..you state; “Fritz it's not that easy my friend but it's the best of what's out there.”
I’m not sure what you are saying tony (Btw, I have been lurking admiring your work). Are you saying that this particular kit is not easy but is the best version of the Su-76? Or………are you saying winter washing isn’t that easy?
The first link that you have so thoughtfully offered; I have already reviewed and was instrumental in my decision to by this particular kit (along with the 5 figures)………
The second link of your build will be printed out and referred to extensively once I dig into this project….
Thanks!! I don’t think I could have found your build unless I was lucky.
Spud…………….
Yes, It will be a worn look………see the reference photo……..that’s what I’m after………you guys might know the fellow who built it? This photo is what’s really made me hesitant about the pastels………I think I can pull this off with liquid mask. Thoughts?
As for the hairspray technique……….I use it for rust chipping………..did it a little on the panther tools……..the large hooks forward on the panther were done with Vallejo liquid mask……..
I’m having a hard time envisioning a winter wash using this technique. Would it go something like this: primer, base coat, hairspray, white wash………chipping?
I am unfamiliar with AK chipping fluids. Is this product readily available online in the USA?
More questions………………
Neither of you (Tony, Spud) commented on using pastels. Is this because you have had negative experiences with this technique or have not tried them?
Next question………what do you think of the Vallejo winter weathering set?
This is some very good input fellows, invaluable actually……………
Hope to hear from you soon………….


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[winterfritz]

However.............I can't go tooooooooooooo wrong.......check out this photo......

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[spud]

you have teh idea riught primer.basecoat,Sealer,hsp,w/w

you can get AK stuff from the AK store there is a banner on the homepage for AK's site

the chipping fluids work the same as the hsp. one you apply your w/w/ you wet teh area and and start working the paint you will see it remove, somtimes it can be a bugger to remove and thats because there is no hsp in that place, so even coats prob 2 is best.

as for pastels dont bother they dont stick as well as pigments made for models, not used teh vellago stuff for winter.

When you go to the AK site grab your self the DVD on winter Techniques this will help you far more because you will see it in action, seeing it done is half of teh learning curve out of teh way!

 

[ScaleModelMadman]

The model in the first photo was done by Steve Zaloga in a 2008 issue of Military Modeling. He used toothpaste stippled over a lacquer clear coat to get the chipping effect, it's much simpler using hairspray or the AK chipping fluids.

 

[spud]

Never heard of that being used, at least it will smell fresh

 

[winterfritz]

Again,
Thanks guys!
I guess I should have mentioned that I’ll be using acrylics…….. (oops)
Okay………so forget pastels…….I’m good with that; wasn’t in love with the idea anyway.
No one seems to like the Vallejo liquid mask and sponge idea……….disadvantages?
Speaking of Vallejo products, I just got their putty and love the stuff……
Back to the white wash>>>
Turns out that I am somewhat familiar with the AK line……
Here are the products that I am looking at per Spud’s advice>>
"Worn Effects" Acrylic Fluid; Item # AK-088
"Heavy Chipping Effects" Acrylic Fluid; Item # AK-089
DVD Winter Weathering Techniques; Item # AK-035DVD
Regarding the first two products…………….”Worn Effects” and “Heavy Chipping Effects”…..they look to be about the same thing………..I guess I’ll pick them both up but would be interested in what the difference is between the two……..
I think I’ll pick up a couple of their washes while I’m at it…………….
These AK products look fairly fundamental to any project I will have beyond the SU-76 and therefore supersede the Vallejo Winter Weathering Set.
I thank you guys for the steer…….my wallet is about $80 lighter!
And tony lee……. I remain curious about your statement: “Fritz it's not that easy my friend but it's the best of what's out there.”……are you saying that this particular kit (MiniArt #35036) is not easy or that winter washes are not easy?

 

[ScaleModelMadman]

If I were to guess, Tony means the kit is a little bit tough but the only game in town.

The differences between worn effects and heavy chipping are the ease in which it releases and the size of the chipping itself.

The liquid mask is difficult to control, I tried it years ago and had the same results many others had, big blob like chips as the masking fluid stands up due to surface tension. What you end up with is very large chips with more rounded edges. I don't think it looks very realistic in 1:35

The best paint to use for your white wash is Tamiya, nothing I have used chips as small and realistically as Tamiya paints. Most others I have tried tend to come up in very large chips, I've tried Vallejo, Lifecolor and Modelflex paints and while they do work, they are much harder to control and don't look as good as the Tamiya paints when chipped.

 

[spud]

The tamiya is far easier to work with, the vellajo is much harder to break down so grab your self some tamiya Xf-1 white, vellajo are fantastic for brush painting

 

[winterfritz]

So…………I go to the AK site and pick up the products I mentioned above: The DVD, the two chipping fluids, washes (Panzer grey, green and I think yellow)….
While I’m there, in order to defer future shipping costs, are there any other products they have that you fellows recommend………..
I’ll pick up the tamiya Xf-1 white this weekend……………
Per usual more questions………
When applying my pin washes………..
I spin my brush down to a fine tip and dip it into the wash,,,,,the bristles then fly apart!!
Solution? Add soap to the wash???
Get better brushes? Recommendations?
Picking your guys brains…..
Thanks,
Sincerely,
Winterfritz……..

 

[Tony lee]

Yeah Fritz the MiniArts SU-76 even with it's running gear error and fit problems is the best kit of this model.
Pastels don't stick very well but are the most forgiving because they don't stick well. I use them on occasion and don't worry about it because I don't handle the model after they are applied anyway.

Using a quality fine pointed brush to apply a pin wash is the key.

Tony lee

 

[Junkie]

Since you're doing a winter scene AK's winter streaking grime would make sense....

 

[winterfritz]

I picked up some AK products and love them……..the washes are great.
I was a little dismayed when I discovered that I had overlooked the fact that they are enamels but they work fine, superbly actually. I’ve employed them on my current build (Dragon Panther G).
Anyway, I got the winter streaking grime and have been monkeying around with that per instructions via “Winter Weathering Techniques by Mig Jimenez”…very doable……..Thanks for the steer.
On to the chipping. Please find an example of a chipping test performed upon a spare Panther back panel……..It was primed (hand brushed) with Vallejo Model Color (Not sure what color, it was whatever was in my pallet that I happened to be using).
Then ½ shot with gloss coat (left side), the other ½ untreated………….
Then……shot with AK “Worn Effects”
Let dry, then shot with Vallejo Model Air Russian Green……..
Let dry, start chipping with a small, flat piece of wood……..
The protection provided in the left hand portion by the gloss coat is evident.
What is even more evident though, as noted by Ken, is the large chipping that resulted in the Vallejo Model Air……..I could have probably gotten smaller chips if I really tried, but Ken is correct…….the Vallejo really wanted to come right off in large chips……..in some places you can see it sort of bubbling up……………
This project is still out a week or so, the painting even longer……so with some down time while I put the finishing touches on my Panther build I am fiddling around with testing the suggested products……….
Currently I have a test similar to the preceding………this time with Tamiya XF2 and AK Heavy Chipping acrylic fluid…………..
Thanks for the help guys……..
WF……….


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[winterfritz]

This build (Mini Art SU 76 #35036) is about a week out, taking a break after the Dragon Panther........I'm getting ready to drop some cash on some more items that were suggested in the Jimenez DVD............
Looking around the purveyor's site to see if there's anything else I might pick up while I'm at it, I stumbled across this: LifeColor Soviet AFV 4BO Green Contrast & Desaturation Set #MS04 (see attachment). It appears to be a modulation set..........I don't think I'll need it but am interested if anyone has any experience with this set.
Relevant to the Su 76 build I am also picking up some filters, grab stix and a display case.
This Su-76 is going to be displayed alongside the TriStar Marder for a compare/contrast sort of deal.........
Anyway, I was curious about the product referred to (LifeColor Soviet AFV 4BO Green Contrast & Desaturation Set #MS04)

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[spud]

these are fairly new so i think you will be the first here to try them out. i was thinking of getting them my self. looking forward to this build

 

[geegad]

seen these on a site thought there were more than that in the box looking forward to seein them getting use,,


geegad

 

[winterfritz]

Well……………………….
I have two Soviet builds on the map:
The impending SU-76 which is going to be in a winter wash scheme……I believe I’m going to be shooting Vallejo and Tamiya paints here……….
After this Su-76/Marder build is done, I’m going to build a Trumpeter SU-152.
Since I am not a wealthy man who must resort to selling his plasma in order to pursue my modeling passion, this paint set may have to wait until I can legally give more plasma….I tired, very tired.
So, barring any rave reviews, I’m putting off buying these paints until the SU-152 build is on the immediate horizon.

 

[winterfritz]

This build is finally underway..............
Man, if this is the best SU-76 out there, I'd hate to see the worst!
I've gone over all of the reviews and builds online (at least the ones I can find, 3 I believe; Thanks Tony!) found a mistake or two here & there.........
Unlike the builds I referenced, I actually started with Step 1 which is the gun. This assembly (steps 1-10) is buggier than my mattress. See the photo for the kind of stuff I keep running into; 2 pieces labeled # 30.........not a killer mistake, but I had to hunt around awhile to find the correct one....just indicative of the kind of buggy nuances I've encountered so far.................
Now I'm on step 9.......time to decide whether or not to cut the barrel as suggested in at least 2 reviews.......
Onward, through the fog............

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