Tamiya F14A 1/32 Scale Build - Painting Procedures

[TRJMI]

It's been over 30 years since my last build and I feel somewhat lost with all the latest in scale modeling so my apologies ahead of time of my questions seem too trivial or ridiculous...

Starting to build the Tamiya F14A and running into build/painting problems. I would like this build to have weathering and panel lines, unlike my 1st build over 30 years ago, would like to make this one look real but I'm reading allot of conflicting stuff. All my paint are Tamiya Acrylic. My Questions:

1. There are allot of raised panels and I bought something that makes panel lines. - Should I even bother or should I use Tamiya Panel Line Accent color only on recessed lines?
2. Primers - Should I stick with Tamiya or use Vallejo? Also, can the primer be lacquer based?
3. Once I put on the base color (acrylic water-based) should I put on a clear gloss first before Wash and Panel Line color or can i place either one on base coat w/o clear/glass coat?
4. Do I need to put on a gloss coat before decals then a matt coat?
5. Using Tamiya Extra thin Cement, for sections of the jet that maybe under some stress, do I need a different type of glue for extra strength like CA or will the extra thin work just as well?
6. Confused about mixing lacquers, enamels, acrylics, water-based, and thinner types


I'm just looking for a head start, some kind of help, I'm a couple of hundred into the project already and don't want to ruin it cause of bad paint decisions.

Thank you

 

[urumomo]

Welcome to SMA !

 

[mark2]

I put a gloss over the base colour,decals will lay down better, once there dry I don't seal them in I just go straight in with washes, ,weathering. I've used enamel and acrylic washes over acrylic and enamel laquers without a problem then finish with satin or matt clear,acrylic or enamel. As for primer I use tamiya rattle can most of the time.

 

[Pantherman]

It's been over 30 years since my last build and I feel somewhat lost with all the latest in scale modeling so my apologies ahead of time of my questions seem too trivial or ridiculous...

Starting to build the Tamiya F14A and running into build/painting problems. I would like this build to have weathering and panel lines, unlike my 1st build over 30 years ago, would like to make this one look real but I'm reading allot of conflicting stuff. All my paint are Tamiya Acrylic. My Questions:

1. There are allot of raised panels and I bought something that makes panel lines. - Should I even bother or should I use Tamiya Panel Line Accent color only on recessed lines?
2. Primers - Should I stick with Tamiya or use Vallejo? Also, can the primer be lacquer based?
3. Once I put on the base color (acrylic water-based) should I put on a clear gloss first before Wash and Panel Line color or can i place either one on base coat w/o clear/glass coat?
4. Do I need to put on a gloss coat before decals then a matt coat?
5. Using Tamiya Extra thin Cement, for sections of the jet that maybe under some stress, do I need a different type of glue for extra strength like CA or will the extra thin work just as well?
6. Confused about mixing lacquers, enamels, acrylics, water-based, and thinner types


I'm just looking for a head start, some kind of help, I'm a couple of hundred into the project already and don't want to ruin it cause of bad paint decisions.

Thank you

Hi and welcome to the forum. Pantherman

 

[Jakko]

Starting to build the Tamiya F14A

Which one? Or at least, in which scale? I ask because Tamiya has F-14s in at least 1:32, 1:48, 1:72 and 1:350 scale, though I kind of suspect you don't mean that last one

1. There are allot of raised panels and I bought something that makes panel lines. - Should I even bother or should I use Tamiya Panel Line Accent color only on recessed lines?

Those accent paints are really intended for recessed lines. If you use them on a raised one, I suspect it will pool on both sides of it and enhance the effect of it standing proud — which is probably not what you want

2. Primers - Should I stick with Tamiya or use Vallejo? Also, can the primer be lacquer based?

If you're going to be using Tamiya acrylics on an all-plastic model, I wouldn't use primer at all. Those paints adhere just fine on bare plastic.

3. Once I put on the base color (acrylic water-based)

Just to be sure: do you mean the Tamiya acrylics when you say "water-based"? Because they're not — they're alcohol-based — but there are plenty of water-based acrylics that behave a little differently from the Tamiya ones. Paints like Vallejo or Mig acrylics are water-based, as is Revell's Aqua Color series.

should I put on a clear gloss first before Wash and Panel Line color or can i place either one on base coat w/o clear/glass coat?

I hardly ever use a clear coat because it's just one more thing that can go wrong — or two, because generally people who do use these, put on gloss first and then a matt one over that later.

4. Do I need to put on a gloss coat before decals then a matt coat?

Not with Tamiya decals. It will help for some brands, but Tamiya's stick well enough and without silvering that there's no need for a clear coat before them at all.

6. Confused about mixing lacquers, enamels, acrylics, water-based, and thinner types

When the paint underneath is dry? In that case there will hardly ever be a problem, except that lacquers can take off just about anything under them if you brush them on. But enamels over acrylics or vice-versa, or either of them over lacquers, is not an issue.

 

[TRJMI]

Which one? Or at least, in which scale? I ask because Tamiya has F-14s in at least 1:32, 1:48, 1:72 and 1:350 scale, though I kind of suspect you don't mean that last one


Those accent paints are really intended for recessed lines. If you use them on a raised one, I suspect it will pool on both sides of it and enhance the effect of it standing proud — which is probably not what you want


If you're going to be using Tamiya acrylics on an all-plastic model, I wouldn't use primer at all. Those paints adhere just fine on bare plastic.


Just to be sure: do you mean the Tamiya acrylics when you say "water-based"? Because they're not — they're alcohol-based — but there are plenty of water-based acrylics that behave a little differently from the Tamiya ones. Paints like Vallejo or Mig acrylics are water-based, as is Revell's Aqua Color series.


I hardly ever use a clear coat because it's just one more thing that can go wrong — or two, because generally people who do use these, put on gloss first and then a matt one over that later.


Not with Tamiya decals. It will help for some brands, but Tamiya's stick well enough and without silvering that there's no need for a clear coat before them at all.


When the paint underneath is dry? In that case there will hardly ever be a problem, except that lacquers can take off just about anything under them if you brush them on. But enamels over acrylics or vice-versa, or either of them over lacquers, is not an issue.

Thx Jakko for getting back so quickly...
My fault, you are correct, the Tamiya paint I have are alcohol based not water. The scale model is 1/32. The decals will be both Tamiya and a 3rd party brand Milspec for the bigger and more elaborate.
I was thinking of using micro sol and micro set for them, is that ok??
I bought a chisel/scriber specifically for panel lines that I could recreate if I overdue it on the sanding, can/should I use this to create the reseeded lines next to the raised one or just use the panel line color on only those lines that are re recessed?
For water based washes, can they be applied right over the acrylics?
Thx

 

[Jakko]

I was thinking of using micro sol and micro set for them, is that ok??

That will certainly work fine on Tamiya decals, and almost certainly also on whichever other brand you decide to use. You could always test it first with a decal you're not going to use.

I bought a chisel/scriber specifically for panel lines that I could recreate if I overdue it on the sanding, can/should I use this to create the reseeded lines next to the raised one or just use the panel line color on only those lines that are re recessed?

I'm the wrong person to ask that — I'm not much of an aircraft modeller, and have only rescribed panel lines on one model that I can recall.

For water based washes, can they be applied right over the acrylics?

Yep. You may want to be careful they don't pool at the bottom, BTW. If the wash does, try to get it away with a brush before it dries.

 

[Down Time]

Welcome!!!!!! Many great people here, post pictures of your builds as you go, we like to see.
Don't ask me for technique advice, I use the F.A.F.O. method.

 

[TRJMI]

That will certainly work fine on Tamiya decals, and almost certainly also on whichever other brand you decide to use. You could always test it first with a decal you're not going to use.


I'm the wrong person to ask that — I'm not much of an aircraft modeller, and have only rescribed panel lines on one model that I can recall.


Yep. You may want to be careful they don't pool at the bottom, BTW. If the wash does, try to get it away with a brush before i

That will certainly work fine on Tamiya decals, and almost certainly also on whichever other brand you decide to use. You could always test it first with a decal you're not going to use.


I'm the wrong person to ask that — I'm not much of an aircraft modeller, and have only rescribed panel lines on one model that I can recall.


Yep. You may want to be careful they don't pool at the bottom, BTW. If the wash does, try to get it away with a brush before it dries.

That will certainly work fine on Tamiya decals, and almost certainly also on whichever other brand you decide to use. You could always test it first with a decal you're not going to use.


I'm the wrong person to ask that — I'm not much of an aircraft modeller, and have only rescribed panel lines on one model that I can recall.


Yep. You may want to be careful they don't pool at the bottom, BTW. If the wash does, try to get it away with a brush before it dries.

Thx Jakko for all your help

 

[Eagle-1]

Howdy.

Rob.

 

[TRJMI]

Howdy.

Rob.

Hello Rob

 

[Eagle-1]

Hello Rob

Y'all come on in!

Rob.

 

[Edbert]

Jakko kinda summed it up, very little I can add other than tell you I am in a similar situation. Took 25 years off and not only is there so much new stuff but the old tried and true items (like Testors Model Master enamels) have been done away with.

I'm trying to learn the new paints, but it sounds like you used Tamiya acrylics from the past so that is one less thing. I do not have issues with them drying too fast and clogging the airbrush that many report. I think that is because I thin the heck out of all paint before shooting. Perhaps I am over thinning, but if not having a problem then why worry?

I'm still learning that acrylic does not mean water soluble. Some acrylics need stronger thinners than alcohol too. I'm trying (and failing) to limit myself to a few brands. Because of that I'm facing a steeper learning curve, so advice is to find a brand/formula that works for you and stick with it.

Thebiggest single thing that has changed since the 90s (for me) is the quality of the kits that are availble. I've only done a handful this year, but with one exception all kits made by one of the big companies is very advanced compared to 30 years ago. I'd recommend the Tamiya F-4B and P-38J as the pinnacle of aircraft kits. Again, I've only built a few but dang they went together well!

You did not mention glue. Tamiya thin was totally new to me in April, now it is my go-to that I use on 90% of things. Pretty easy to use once you find out how much is "too much" the hard way.

I've been doing a gloss clear on top of Tamiya acrylic before applying panel liner. This is not because the liner will attack the color, but that it will bleed out if using XF series and that it does not flow as well into the lines as it does with the gloss clear. Besides (already mentioned) the decals sit down a little better.

 

[Jakko]

I'm still learning that acrylic does not mean water soluble.

"Acrylic" means the binder in the paint is acrylic resin. Paint is, in simple terms, a pigment for the colour, a binder to stick the pigment to the surface and a solvent to make the whole thing brush- or sprayable. In most people's minds, "acrylic paint" means "water-soluble" but in fact acrylic paints can be made in all kinds of types.

Tamiya and Mr. Aqueous "acrylic" paints are alcohol-based, for example, which means they use an alcohol as the solvent — and that means you can thin them with water too, because alcohols can dissolve in water. On the other hand, Vallejo or Revell acrylics really are water-based, so they use water as the solvent, meaning you can thin them with water too — but use alcohol as a thinner and unexpected things may happen. I once tried using isopropanol as a thinner for Italeri acrylic paint, which works, but you'd better spray quick because the alcohol causes the paint to form short strings that will soon clog up your nozzle. Revell acrylics, though, can be thinned with alcohol just fine if they've started to thicken up in the bottle (but they can too if you just stir water into them).

Similarly, lacquer paints sold for modelling (like Mr. Hobby or Tamiya's LP series) are nearly all acrylics, too, but use lacquer thinner as their solvent. You can't thin these with water at all, because the solvent isn't water-soluble either, but the paints are acrylics nonetheless.

 

[Edbert]

On the other hand, Vallejo or Revell acrylics really are water-based, so they use water as the solvent, meaning you can thin them with water too — but use alcohol as a thinner and unexpected things may happen.

Thanks for the help in clarifying!

When I was working on my Spit-V earlier this year I realized the green Tamiya XF I had was the wrong color so I drove to the local shop that showed the correct color was in-stock. When I got there it turned out they were out of the color I wanted (sorry, do not remember the details), but the shop staff told me I could use Mr. Color #70 and that it was an acrylic compatible with the Tamiya line.

When I got home I found that diluting with alcohol turns it into a mess! It was not the strings you describe with Italeri, but it was blobs of snotty consistency that I could not dump fast enough. Required a deep cleaning of the airbrush.

Bottom line, some acrylics need lacquer thinner and some use water...go figure!

 

[Jakko]

The whole GSI Creos "Mr." Brand is needlessly confusing, IMHO. They have three lines of paint, called Mr. Hobby, Mr. Aqueous (AKA Mr. Aqueous Hobby and Mr. Hobby Aqueous), and Acrysion. Mr. Hobby is a lacquer-based acrylic paint, Mr. Aqueous is alcohol-based, and Acrysion is something-based but I don't quite remember what — they seem to be some sort of lacquer/water-based hybrid? I don't get along with their lacquer paints, but I've mistakenly ordered a bottle once or twice because I didn't pay enough attention.

To make it worse, many colours have the same number in two or all three of the ranges, but not necessarily in all of them. Mr. Color No. 70 is dark green, but Mr. Aqueous No. 70 and Acrysion No. 70 are both RLM 02 grey … Here's a handy colour chart.