Tamiya 1/48 F-4B (#121)

Edbert said:

C'mon Gary, the proper term is "gooderer", get it straight bro!

As far as comparing builds overall a pointless exercise, but if I can get the blue and yellow patina on my nozzles that you got, I'll be a happy camper.

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No comparison. At this point in my build,
I'm in the lulling period. In between decals, and finishing accent parts.
Lately I haven't had much mojo to finish this build.

GaryG64 said:

No comparison. At this point in my build,
I'm in the lulling period. In between decals, and finishing accent parts.
Lately I haven't had much mojo to finish this build.

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Head down, crack on, then on to the next one........... or chuck it in the to do pile.

I'm a great motivational speaker as you can tell.... hehe. Pantherman

Pantherman said:

Head down, crack on, then on to the next one........... or chuck it in the to do pile.

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Everyone is different, but doing that would be a disaster for me. It took me a longer time than it should have but I learned to stop working on something is I feel frustration or boredom. Continuing with either condition is exactly how I end up making something into spru-glue.


I can see it now, but even when I took this picture I did not realize the lighter silver was missing or thin in areas. Not a disaster, I can always say I meant to do that. When I applied the white to the tips is when I saw it.


This is what I mean. It took massive skill to produce those thin areas, yeah that's it.

So while I was painting all those little bits white, I figured I might as well load up some more and do the underside.


I had to stop here as I had forgotten to mask off the tail section from the white. I think the mottling and panel lines are too strong, needed to adjust that as well.

All that careful masking of the wheel wells was a waste of time. I'm used to WWII aircraft which are seldom the same color on the underside as the wheel wells.


I missed the silver part in between the nacelles, see the blue arrow. Easy to put it in (just a rectangle), so I'll consider if the reward is worth the risk to try and touch up the silver on the elevators when the brush has silver in it.



That said, I just put all the Phantom stuff in a box, and brought out the P-38 I 'm working on. Looked at the kit for about 20 seconds and put the Lightning into the closet too, I wanted to change gears and going from plane to plane was not the shift I needed. I want to work on armor for a while. I stopped working on my AFV Club M5 Stuart weeks ago out of frustration, so I grabbed the Bradley to work on for now.

Pantherman said:

Head down, crack on, then on to the next one........... or chuck it in the to do pile.

I'm a great motivational speaker as you can tell.... hehe. Pantherman

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The best

Edbert said:

Everyone is different, but doing that would be a disaster for me. It took me a longer time than it should have but I learned to stop working on something is I feel frustration or boredom. Continuing with either condition is exactly how I end up making something into spru-glue.

View attachment 123339
I can see it now, but even when I took this picture I did not realize the lighter silver was missing or thin in areas. Not a disaster, I can always say I meant to do that. When I applied the white to the tips is when I saw it.

View attachment 123340
This is what I mean. It took massive skill to produce those thin areas, yeah that's it.

So while I was painting all those little bits white, I figured I might as well load up some more and do the underside.

View attachment 123341
I had to stop here as I had forgotten to mask off the tail section from the white. I think the mottling and panel lines are too strong, needed to adjust that as well.

All that careful masking of the wheel wells was a waste of time. I'm used to WWII aircraft which are seldom the same color on the underside as the wheel wells.

View attachment 123342
I missed the silver part in between the nacelles, see the blue arrow. Easy to put it in (just a rectangle), so I'll consider if the reward is worth the risk to try and touch up the silver on the elevators when the brush has silver in it.

View attachment 123343

That said, I just put all the Phantom stuff in a box, and brought out the P-38 I 'm working on. Looked at the kit for about 20 seconds and put the Lightning into the closet too, I wanted to change gears and going from plane to plane was not the shift I needed. I want to work on armor for a while. I stopped working on my AFV Club M5 Stuart weeks ago out of frustration, so I grabbed the Bradley to work on for now.

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I like the shading, obviously a master at work to get that light/dark pattern........hehe. seriously though, it's looking great. PM

I was working on the P-38's canopy when I found a flaw in it that required scraping and polishing of clear bits. I decided it was a good time to go ahead and remove that "line" or ridge that runs down the middle of the large bubble-type canopies like the Phantom has.

After removing the line successfully I went ahead and started masking. As mentioned elsewhere I tend to do some assembly-line stuff when I'm working on multiple kits at the same time.

Anyway, I found a similar flaw in the clear plastic on this one too. C'mon Tamiya!



It is kinda hard to see, the blob is just forward of the vertical support, so the pilot would see this at 1:00.



Even more close-up which shows the flaw better, but also picks up dust and reflections. But this bubble or blob is actually inside the plastic, unable to feel it on either side. I think I'm just gonna have to live with this one. Unless that Testors clear "window maker" could be used somehow. I should have some on hand this week.

Basecoat is down, I'm not entirely happy with the color. First coat was too dark/tan/brown for my tatste, so I added some lightening, and some more, and a bit more...and I think I overdid it.





Add to that, I noticed after demasking the canopy that I forgot at least one lightening phase on the canopy. The one mounted on the kit is for closed, I am just using it as a mask. The one I intend to use is "open" and you can see below it is a bit darker/bluer/grayer.




I'm not going to make any decisions or changes today. I've learned to let things sit and stew for a while, it might be just fine. After a few coats of clear and some paneling/weathering I think it should darken some more. Plus having those white control surfaces helps the gray look...gray.

I decided to leave the color alone and press on. We can call it "sun bleached" at the end of a tour.

Also, I think the gloss clear I just applied did darken it slightly. I'm gonna leave it alone so the clear can dry, I've had issues with the durability of the varnishes in the past, and maybe giving them over 24 hours to fully harden is the trick.

So while the jet is hardening, I moved on to lots of little bits.




Seats came out okay, kinda wishing I had spent extra for PE, but the way the canopy opens much will be hidden.



I'm clearly out of my area of expertise with one of these "new" jets (1961 counts as new right?), but maybe someone here knows. What is the deal with the variations in them? Four Sparrows and four Sidewinders, got that. but you can see the front fins on the Sidewinders show two different types, and the longitudinal "bar" on the sparrows is also different, two have one long bar each, two have two shorter ones each.

I thought that was strange and the destructions are no help.

Edbert said:

I decided to leave the color alone and press on. We can call it "sun bleached" at the end of a tour.

Also, I think the gloss clear I just applied did darken it slightly. I'm gonna leave it alone so the clear can dry, I've had issues with the durability of the varnishes in the past, and maybe giving them over 24 hours to fully harden is the trick.

So while the jet is hardening, I moved on to lots of little bits.

View attachment 124402
View attachment 124403

Seats came out okay, kinda wishing I had spent extra for PE, but the way the canopy opens much will be hidden.

View attachment 124404

I'm clearly out of my area of expertise with one of these "new" jets (1961 counts as new right?), but maybe someone here knows. What is the deal with the variations in them? Four Sparrows and four Sidewinders, got that. but you can see the front fins on the Sidewinders show two different types, and the longitudinal "bar" on the sparrows is also different, two have one long bar each, two have two shorter ones each.

I thought that was strange and the destructions are no help.

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When doing armour the different tips are for either high explosive or armour piercing . Just a thought, I'm sure others will correct me. Pantherman

I found out a lot of things about the armaments, of course I was pretty sure I'd already screwed up with the instructions. Just wanted to share the "answers" here.

#1
The Tamiya F-4B sprue contains 4 Sidewinder bodies but options for 2 different seeker heads, either the earlier G/H or the later L. I think you may have used the wrong seeker heads off the sprue for two of your 'winders. The Sparrows are AIM-7Es so they should all look the same.

#2
The AIM-7 "bars" are actually called tunnel cable cover and it connects the guidance/target detector section to the control section as the warhead seperates the 2 sections. Also note that the tunnel cable cover is attached to the wave guide antenna which is another "bar" that runs right to the back of the rocket motor and has what looks like a white delrin dowel that is about 1/2" long. So the "bar" actually runs from about 4" from behind the radome (which is ceramic and is flat white to a bone white color) to the back of the rocket motor. While I'm at it the wings and fins are unpainted that looks like dark steel and the overall missile is a light gray, not white like the instructions state.
I worked on/maintained/tested both of these missile systems for 7 years so I do have plenty of first hand experience.

#3 (partial response to above)
The grey missile body for air to air missiles is a NATO standard. I believe the standard to change to grey was adopted in late 80's or early 90's. Before that the MIL SPEC required white for missile bodies and rocket launchers. It didn't specify the shade of white but it was mostly gloss or insignia white. The grey is specified and has a FS specific standard number for the colour. Similar to the colours of the brown, yellow and blue bands that are specified. So white for Vietnam era AIM-7E is correct.

#4
I did the same thing on my first one. I went back and read the instructions (God forbidden!) and realized I'd done the same thing you did. Had to remake two of each. All the parts are there.

#5
The sidewinders you have here is AIM-9L (left) and AIM-9D/G (right). I haven't seen those before carried simultaneously and I don't believe I've seen Ls on F-4Bs (they came into service after the vast majority of F-4Bs were retired). It wasn't a rare occurrence to have two of the sidewinder rails empty, so the two D/G model Sidewinders would fit perfectly on your F-4B. Those two were externally similar.

#6
AIM-9D/G would be the safe choice for any Vietnam-era Navy Phantom. Save AIM-9B for Air Force Phantoms in Vietnam, with AIM-9E and AIM-9J showing up on USAF Phantoms in '72. I'm in the process of writing a book about naval phantoms so, if you have further questions please let me know.. I'll be happy to help the best I can.

Edbert said:

Basecoat is down, I'm not entirely happy with the color. First coat was too dark/tan/brown for my tatste, so I added some lightening, and some more, and a bit more...and I think I overdid it.

View attachment 124242

View attachment 124243

Add to that, I noticed after demasking the canopy that I forgot at least one lightening phase on the canopy. The one mounted on the kit is for closed, I am just using it as a mask. The one I intend to use is "open" and you can see below it is a bit darker/bluer/grayer.

View attachment 124244


I'm not going to make any decisions or changes today. I've learned to let things sit and stew for a while, it might be just fine. After a few coats of clear and some paneling/weathering I think it should darken some more. Plus having those white control surfaces helps the gray look...gray.

Click to expand...

To me it seems like most Light Gull Greys and even the Light Ghost Grey and Dark Ghost Greys from paint manufacturers just feel too dark compared to both pics as well as ones I have seen in person.
Maybe it is that the paint on these planes fades quickly in the sun, or maybe it is that the paint may match the FS color, but does not take into account the "scale down" effect

I like the color you have

compare it to something like this and it feels right






and here is Vallejo's Light Gull grey compared to an A-4 fuel tanks grey. I figured this was one of the better comparisons for color since the Fuel Tank is not quite as exposed as the fuselage to the sun. Seems too dark, especially for it's scale

Alright, the M3 has a top-coat that I need to let sit for a while, the P-38 is primed but I need to read up on polishing metallic paint before moving ahead on it. So...

Time to put the Phantom back on the front burner right?

I need to give the metal surfaces some attention...


You can see the gaps I missed in the picture above, no excuses on a kit of this quality.


I'm relatively happy with the variations of warm and cool grey.


This area will be getting (darkish) exhaust "stains".

I'm also going to experiment with adding color to the cans. Hoping I can match what Gary did on his F-4, looks for his thread on Robin Olds to see.

This is a very nice build indeed. I've just read back through the thread and I really like what you did with the interior - nice job!

I have both the Tamiya P-38 and the Tomcat sitting around collecting dust whilst I spend time building crappy older kits... I just felt I couldn't do them justice. Seeing your builds has really inspired me to get them going again.

Cheers!

I'm sorry @GaryG64, I'll keep trying but I cannot get your effect on the cans.



those are just stuck in there for now, Need more work.




Top side too, the vert is mostly primer, with some metal overspray from previous session.

Edbert said:

I'm sorry @GaryG64, I'll keep trying but I cannot get your effect on the cans.

View attachment 126382

those are just stuck in there for now, Need more work.


View attachment 126381

Top side too, the vert is mostly primer, with some metal overspray from previous session.

View attachment 126384

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I think they (cans), and the entire build looks/looking really, really nice!

Agreed - that looks superb!

Pantherman said:

I'm a great motivational speaker as you can tell

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Ok then May I have your business card I need help Now. Lol

This is the scheme (1 of 3) that I chose to build.


I snapped this one just to show an attempt was made to use paint for some of the markings. Difficulty in setting up the tape around the cockpit made me give up. The one in place above is just for a mask, the final kit will have both canopies open, and masking them for paint was looking quite unpleasant.


Deekals were going to be used anyway, right?





I think Tamiya has changed their system, these are not the thick indestructible ones of the past, but they laid down pretty nice, No use of Micro-Sol yet, but I intend to bath them in the stuff. You can see some stencils were started on the starboard wing.

That's reaaaalllly nice - it looks fab in those decals and the painting is spot on!

Heh…you haven't gone to stencil hell yet. Good looking bird.