Maybe a dumb question

[Gman509]

When you're airbrushing clear acrylic paint and are cleaning the airbrush, how do you know when it's clean? It doesn't spray color so IDK!!

I just got on how is this site

 

[Gman509]

I have been building for some time now and would like to talk with other people about modeling and maybe learn from you all

 

[scalebuilderchad]

I have been building for some time now and would like to talk with other people about modeling and maybe learn from you all

Then start a thread in the introduction section, please. This thread is about cleaning airbrushes and lacquers.

 

[Laurie]

Many acrylic paints are acrylic lacquers, including Tamiya X and XF paints. So using them you are still using lacquers.

Tamiya acrylic paints are not lacquers, as it turns out

Posted by hypertex on Thursday, July 23, 2015 6:57 PM

I've read it here and in other forums that "Tamiya acrylics are 'technically' lacquers." I always doubted this statement because 1) Tamiya never refers to their acrylic paints as 'lacquers' in their own literature and 2) they behave nothing like lacquers. (BTW, I'm talking about the bottled paints, not the spray cans).
Today I posed a question to the Tamiya representatives at IPMS Nationals in Columbus. They indicated that their paints are not lacquers and that they are, in fact, acrylic paints.

 

[urumomo]

Lacquer is technically nitrocellulose .
All these hobby paints are acrylic resins , not nitro .
The term " lacquer acrylic " is used to separate out the acrylic resins that are compatible with alcohols and ketones .

https://coatings.specialchem.com/selection-guide/acrylic-resins

 

[CY343491]

Many acrylic paints are acrylic lacquers, including Tamiya X and XF paints. So using them you are still using lacquers.

As soon as you thin them with alcohol based thinners, i think they're acrylics

 

[scalebuilderchad]

Tamiya acrylic paints are not lacquers, as it turns out

Posted by hypertex on Thursday, July 23, 2015 6:57 PM

I've read it here and in other forums that "Tamiya acrylics are 'technically' lacquers." I always doubted this statement because 1) Tamiya never refers to their acrylic paints as 'lacquers' in their own literature and 2) they behave nothing like lacquers. (BTW, I'm talking about the bottled paints, not the spray cans).
Today I posed a question to the Tamiya representatives at IPMS Nationals in Columbus. They indicated that their paints are not lacquers and that they are, in fact, acrylic paints.

Tamiya "acrylic" paints behave best when you thin them with lacquer.

So it is interesting to see Tamiya says they are not lacquers at all. I mean they have solvent in them.

 

[urumomo]

They are acrylics because they use an acrylic resin as the binder .
Doesn't matter what you add , they will always be acrylic resins .

Not all acrylic resins are compatible with alcohol .
That OH group with set off polymerization and turn it to snot

As soon as you thin them with alcohol based thinners, i think they're acrylics

 

[CY343491]

I think that urumomo is the only one qualified to put an end to this discussion. Tamiya X/XF paints are acrylics or not?

 

[blakeh1]

for what it is worth, I find the "spray until no color comes out" does not mean the airbrush is necessarily cleaned, unless you are just trying to clear out the old color before starting with a new one

the advice given earlier of taking off the nozzle, and cleaning the needle is a good one

often I will not be spraying color, but when I take it apart, their is dried/semi-dried paint on parts and cleaning that off will help prevent future clogging

I typically use either Tamiya, or Vallejo model air, and I find taking the airbrush nozzle off and loosening the needle so I can push it forward and backward while running some water through it from the tap is the best way to clean it out. If I do not do this, often the next time I try using the airbrush, the needle will be stuck in place

every so often a full disassembly and soaking the parts in alcohol will do wonders for it

 

[urumomo]

Coating types are defined by their binder .
The composition of the reducer or even the vehicle do not define the coating .

Terms have been " corrupted " but that's just the way it is .
" Enamel " is a good example .
Most people associate " enamel " with " oil based "
But the proper way to label a paint is by the resin , so an oil base is a curing resin , via oxidation , and will be either an alkyd or another drying oil like linseed etc .

The Tamiya paints are therefore an acrylic , but like I said , the term " lacquer acrylic " is used to differentiate between pure water based acrylics and those that are compatible with reducers containing alcohols and ketones .

" Lacquer Thinner " is my favorite term to despise .
As I've stated in the past , " lacquer thinner " is like the word " beer "
It tells you nothing much .
It doesn't tell you if an ale or lager yeast is used , what grain is fermented , if hops are added , the alcohol by volume , turbidity , specific gravity etc .

Lacquer thinners can be formulated all kinds of ways and the paint manufacturers formulate their lacquer thinners to be ideally compatible with the RESIN that they are using and the application conditions they believe are the most common .

Hardware store lacquer thinners are kinda the kitchen sink of solvents since it is mostly used for cleaning .

I think that urumomo is the only one qualified to put an end to this discussion. Tamiya X/XF paints are acrylics or not?

 

[scalebuilderchad]

You keep saying that a paint is defined by the binder.

But if an acrylic paint with an acrylic binder still has solvents in it, like Tamiya paints do, then are they also hazardous? That is my ultimate point here. Laurie keeps preaching about how he won't use lacquers because they are hazardous. I am trying to point out that lacquer is present in the acrylic paint he uses.

 

[urumomo]

I keep saying that because that is the way it works .

You believe ketones are present in Tamiya acrylic paints right out of the bottle ?
Can you link to an MSDS ?
I don't know , I don't use Tamiya paints .

" lacquer is present in the acrylic paint he uses. "
This sentence doesn't make sense .
What are you calling " lacquer " ?

 

[scalebuilderchad]

I'm done arguing about whether Tamiya paints are acrylic or lacquer. Information has been supplied that says those paints are acrylics.

What I am saying is there are hazardous chemicals "lacquers" in those acrylic paints. Technically I am probably mis-using the word lacquer. But I am trying to make a point that Laurie will not use "lacquer" paints because they are hazardous. But in fact, there are hazardous materials in these paints. They are not water-based acrylics.

Tamiya MSDS Sheet.
https://www.hobbyco.net/content/files/msds/mini acrylic paint.pdf

 

[urumomo]

I don't like guessing but I would have been correct in guessing the composition of the Tamiya . Sorta .
From that SDS it is alcohols only . No ketones .

I don't understand all this about Laurie --- he uses Tamiya a lot from what he's said .
I believe he uses various solvents but only with protective gear .
I was only answering the technical side of the specific chemistry .

 

[CY343491]

Respirator, goggle and ventilation will protect everyone from every shit.

 

[Laurie]

I am just going home. A pint of beer with out lacquer.

 

[urumomo]

Beer ?
Did you drink the winery dry ?
Waiting on a shipment of grapes no doubt .

 

[CY343491]

Beer ?
Did you drink the winery dry ?
Waiting on a shipment of grapes no doubt .

No but drinked a shot ot lacquer when kid, no shit happened, apart from mom"s slap.

 

[urumomo]

Lacquer ?