Question on weathering a p47 d1943 razorback

[docsudy]

Hello All
All does anyone have any experience with weathering the oil drab green dorsal surface of a p47d razorback. I was thinking about first using a oil sludge wash using sepia color oil. I was going to follow this with a pin dot filter technique to bring out the aging process. My question is is it better to do one before the other.
I've also seen a recent YouTube of somebody weathering an oil drab surface P61 with using thinner and a soft bristle brush to gently take layers of the paint away, giving it that faded appearance. Any experiences or suggestions?
Thanks
Doc Sudy

 

[JOHN R]

Hello All
All does anyone have any experience with weathering the oil drab green dorsal surface of a p47d razorback. I was thinking about first using a oil sludge wash using sepia color oil. I was going to follow this with a pin dot filter technique to bring out the aging process. My question is is it better to do one before the other.
I've also seen a recent YouTube of somebody weathering an oil drab surface P61 with using thinner and a soft bristle brush to gently take layers of the paint away, giving it that faded appearance. Any experiences or suggestions?
Thanks
Doc Sudy

Steve Jones is the man to ask Doc, hopefully he will see this post and be able to help.

 

[airdave]

Just to clarify, since you suggested using "oil sludge wash" to create your colour.
You are mispronouncing the name of the paint used on warplanes.

The colour is "Olive Drab".
Olive being a type of green. (so adding "green" at the end is redundant and unnecessary)
Drab refers to lack of brightness in the colour.

So if you are using some sort of oil residue colour just for that reason, you are thinking wrong.
Any oil trails on a P47 are pretty precise,
The exhaust leaves a bigger dirty trail.
Personally I think weathering is often overdone.
A P47 leaking oil is a P47 that has been shot up and probably isn't making it home.
It certainly didn't take off that way.

The "faded" appearance is what you want (if anything).
Paint colours faded quickly under the conditions.
[The actual name of the Pittsburgh Paint color is "Lustreless Olive Drab"]
The paint was always matte finish which is why it was so hard to clean.
Aggressive cleaners like gasoline were used to wipe things down resulting in a quickly faded and patchy colour.

Sorry to nitpick, its in my nature.

 

[docsudy]

Just to clarify, since you suggested using "oil sludge wash" to create your colour.
You are mispronouncing the name of the paint used on warplanes.

The colour is "Olive Drab".
Olive being a type of green. (so adding "green" at the end is redundant and unnecessary)
Drab refers to lack of brightness in the colour.

So if you are using some sort of oil residue colour just for that reason, you are thinking wrong.
Any oil trails on a P47 are pretty precise,
The exhaust leaves a bigger dirty trail.
Personally I think weathering is often overdone.
A P47 leaking oil is a P47 that has been shot up and probably isn't making it home.
It certainly didn't take off that way.

The "faded" appearance is what you want (if anything).
Paint colours faded quickly under the conditions.
[The actual name of the Pittsburgh Paint color is "Lustreless Olive Drab"]
The paint was always matte finish which is why it was so hard to clean.
Aggressive cleaners like gasoline were used to wipe things down resulting in a quickly faded and patchy colour.

Sorry to nitpick, its in my nature.

Thanks for the pointers. Really appreciate them.

Do you have any recommended techniques to create that irregular faded appearance on the olive drab exterior surface?

 

[airdave]

When it comes to "plastic modeling", I'm better classed as a born-again-newbie,
so I am not the one to be suggesting painting techniques in this regard.

I do like your earlier suggestion of "using thinner and a soft bristle brush to gently take layers of the paint away, giving it that faded appearance."
Sounds like a risky but rewarding method.

I'm a graphic artist and canvas painter, so I imagine the finish as being more and more faded out to lighter and lighter greens.
But the matte finish does a lot to influence the look and colour.

For reference I've attached some photos I took of Flak Bait at the beginning of restoration.
Gives you a good idea of what can really happen to the olive drab and painted surface.
Especially like the spine of a razorback.

Keep in mind, B-26 Flak Bait holds the record - over 100 bombing missions. 725 hours of flying time.
Far more than any P47 would have endured but the surface of any P47 in 1944 would have looked similar.
(although with less missing paint and fewer bullet holes!*).

*Flak Bait had over a thousand holes in her!

 

[docsudy]

When it comes to "plastic modeling", I'm better classed as a born-again-newbie,
so I am not the one to be suggesting painting techniques in this regard.

I do like your earlier suggestion of "using thinner and a soft bristle brush to gently take layers of the paint away, giving it that faded appearance."
Sounds like a risky but rewarding method.

I'm a graphic artist and canvas painter, so I imagine the finish as being more and more faded out to lighter and lighter greens.
But the matte finish does a lot to influence the look and colour.

For reference I've attached some photos I took of Flak Bait at the beginning of restoration.
Gives you a good idea of what can really happen to the olive drab and painted surface.
Especially like the spine of a razorback.

Keep in mind, B-26 Flak Bait holds the record - over 100 bombing missions. 725 hours of flying time.
Far more than any P47 would have endured but the surface of any P47 in 1944 would have looked similar.
(although with less missing paint and fewer bullet holes!*).

*Flak Bait had over a thousand holes in her!

View attachment 127302

View attachment 127303

View attachment 127304

Dave
Thank you for these images. They will really help me . Once again
Thanks so much
Doc Sudy

 

[Jakko]

Olive being a type of green.

Eh … that's very debatable OD paint was mixed from ochre and black pigments, no green in there, but IMHO it's a brown colour with a green hue, rather than the green colour with a brown hue (or even without) that a lot of people paint their models in. The version of OD used on US Army vehicles faded towards brown when it aged, but I don't know what the type of paint used on aircraft, nor the darker OD used by the USAAF when standard OD was found to be too light for aircraft.

 

[airdave]

Think about it.
(I used to be a paint mixer in hardware store back when we manually added tints to a base from a book.)

Black (tint) is very very very dark Blue. Mixed with any colour, its effect is like adding blue.
As a painter(airbrusher) I know to make something look blacker, add blue.
Ochre is a yellow.

Blue + Yellow = ....should I just leave it there?

I agree, the earliest American WW1 paint dubbed 'olive drab' was described as a muddy colour,
probably more brown than green due to the higher 'black' tint.
(remember your days in school when you mixed all the paints together...and got mud?)

We were talking about a WW2 colour...and Olive Drab went through various shades of green,
including much darker ones that being used in matte finish, tended to fade or get very dirty.
Yes, there was a difference between what the Army and Air Force used.

I think this debate over "the right colour" has spawned fury on many forums and led to "colourful" arguments.
So, I will stop pushing my view on this...I apologize if any of my views are incorrect.
Its all good.

And no Virginia, Army Green is not Olive Drab.

I never believed the colour on this pamphlet was an accurate rendition of the colour,
it most likely contained a paint sample.
I just love the details and information on it!

 

[Jakko]

Black (tint) is very very very dark Blue. Mixed with any colour, its effect is like adding blue.
As a painter(airbrusher) I know to make something look blacker, add blue.
Ochre is a yellow.

Yes, and that's why I said it's a brown with a green hue

Yes, there was a difference between what the Army and Air Force used.

Mainly because the standard US Army OD proved to be too light for use on aircraft. But this has caused confusion among enthousiasts and modellers since then, many of whom weren't (aren't) aware of there being multiple shades. It's not helped either by the postwar standard(s) being lighter than the original one, and the gloss and matt versions of those differing as well even though they weren't supposed to.

Steve Zaloga wrote a very good article about OD and the myths surrounding it.

 

[BlackSheepTwoOneFour]

Look at the C-47 Whiskey Seven or the famous Memphis Belle.both have various shades of Olive Drabs and greens in different spots.

Same thing with silver WW2 aircrafts. Different shades of silver in random panels.