Tamiya Acrylics add-ins compatibility question

[Marktastrophe]

Hopefully this will be an easy answer for someone:


Does the Tamiya Paint Retarder (Acrylic) work in Tamiya Acrylics along with their Tamiya Lacquer Thinner?
Or when using the Acrylic Paint Retarder, should I stick to thinning with Rubbing Alcohol or Tamiya Acrylic thinner?

 

[the Baron]

I use Tamiya acrylics, but not the retarder. My instinct, though, tells me that the retarder probably isn't compatible with the lacquer thinner's solvents. I'd stick with the acrylic thinner.

 

[Marktastrophe]

I use Tamiya acrylics, but not the retarder. My instinct, though, tells me that the retarder probably isn't compatible with the lacquer thinner's solvents. I'd stick with the acrylic thinner.

That's what I was thinking too. I could not find anything about it on their site though.
I suppose I can put some in a jar (not the AB canister) and see if it turns to gum or boils or anything alchemically crazy.

 

[the Baron]

When I saw your post yesterday, I remembered having read recently, somewhere in the 'Net, the ingredients of Tamiya's retarder. But I can't remember where it is. I wanted to link it into my reply for you. It wasn't at Tamiya USA's site. I may stumble across it again.

I can't remember what the compound is, but naturally enough, it's less volatile than water and so, slows down the drying time. Might have been glycol, glycerine-I just can't remember. But I think we have the correct instincts on this.

Yeah, in the absence of knowing, testing is the next best thing.

 

[urumomo]

propylene glycol
miscible with a broad range of solvents, including water, acetone,

 

[Test Valley Models]

AFAIK the only difference between the two is that one has a retarder, all my customers who buy Tamiya and XF series, buy both types of thinner, and have not reported any problems.
As has been suggested previously, a small test mix should allay any worries

 

[Marktastrophe]

I'll give it a go here after I tie up my Godzilla project.
I wasn't brave enough to try it this time, but I can confirm the acrylic retarder and 91% isopropyl works nicely for the AB.

 

[unclepine]

I'll give it a go here after I tie up my Godzilla project.
I wasn't brave enough to try it this time, but I can confirm the acrylic retarder and 91% isopropyl works nicely for the AB.

Hey guys, I've been airbrushing and teaching it for many years now, and I have ONE caviat that I teach all my students...If you use Tamiya Paint, use Tamiya thinner(acrylic to acrylic, lacquer to lacquer), if you use Gunze paint, use Gunze thinner...etc., etc., etc. I know there are success stories where people mix and match, but if you want consistancy day after day...try to stay away from chemical wizardry...less frustration, and you KNOW it will work every time. For those that DO get the results they want from "wizardry"...fine...but somewhere, sometimes, along the line it's gonna give you grief. We've all(including me) done the mix and match thing, but in the end, there are chemicals in all manufacturers paints that are DESIGNED to work with their own thinners/flow agents/retarders...so why mess with a known system...? And don't give me that 'ol ..."heck, I got a GALLON of winshield wiper wash that works fine...!!"
See what happens when the Amonia starts eating the chrome inside yer expensive airbrush...!

 

[Marktastrophe]

so why mess with a known system...? And don't give me that 'ol ..."heck, I got a GALLON of winshield wiper wash that works fine...!!"
See what happens when the Amonia starts eating the chrome inside yer expensive airbrush...!

I would neve use washer fluid, lol... but that is exactly the answer why. "To accomplish a task with things I have on hand, instead of making a 2 hour round trip to spend money,"

I see the Tamiya USA sight has a Lacquer Retarder now, and this is exciting news to me! (I've just started to be able to buy Tamiya Lacquers at brick and mortars in Michigan this year!) And the Tamiya Lacquer thinner is marketed to work with the Tamiya Acrylics, so I'm not worried about the mix there. More the Acrylic retarder to the Lacquer thinner.
That being said... Using the Lacquer thinner on my old Acrylic clears may make the retarder a moot point... especially because at that point more thinner should reactivate it, or give it more working time.

 

[Little Cutie]

I know what to use and what not to use in paint. I've been doing this for quite a long time. Lacquer thinner isn't something that you put into paint - it's what you are supposed to use to remove it from your spray equipment. You can use acetone which can be washed away with water and it flashes off in minutes or even seconds. It's not as toxic if you use it inside and it does a great job of removing superglues and it less expensive in quart cans. Most window washer fluids are made with alcohol these days so you don't have to worry about them destroying your airbrush or model. Denatured alcohol is best if you're going to thin acrylics as it doesn't craze (turn white), or eat plastic or paint. It can be used in just about anything and cleans well.

Although I always use acetone as it's not as chemically harsh as lacquer thinner as it has MEK or Methyl Ethyl Ketone in it and is the main ingredient in it. This eats plastic, glue, Bondo body filler and spot putty, paint, some airbrush lines made from nylon or HDPE, or Orlon, or other synthetic type airline. It's also hard on rubber and fabrics which are sensitive to chemical agents. Any cleaning rags you use with lacquer thinner will have to be used outside and left there to dry. I stopped using lacquer thinner when it ate the purple finish off my $15.00 garbage gun that I bought from Harbour Freight in 2006. It was supposed to be anodized but was just a clearcoat. Now my gun is all chrome looking aluminum and shiny. Either way if you're ever in doubt - test it one a piece of sprue or other garbage model parts. Usually the optional parts that come with models are the ones that I test paint and solvents on for compatibility or just how paint looks sprayed on or other test bed.

 

[urumomo]

Lacquer thinner is definitely used in paint , but it depends on the paint .
There are acrylic formulations that will react negatively to it's inclusion and some are designed so their performance can be modified with the use of " lacquer thinner " .
I put that in quotes because " lacquer thinner " can mean all different things .
Most of the lacquer thinner you will find at hardware stores or big-box stores is formulated without MEK and minimal if any toluene these days , due to toxicity . They are mostly acetone and methanol , along with mineral spirits ( basically - it will be indicated as " petroleum hydrocarbon mixture " in the SDS ).
Home Depot stopped selling MEK altogether and now sells " MEK Substitute " , which is ethyl acetate -- which you will also find in small amounts in modern , consumer-grade lacquer thinner .

The hobby paint companies such as Tamiya , AK , Gunze etc , all make " lacquer thinners " for use in their respective coatings .
These formulations usually contain various alcohols along with ketones similar to acetone such as pentanone .
Since the chemical properties of these components are very similar across the range of lacquer thinners available , they can be interchanged but this will change the characteristics of the paint application and curing .

There's many acrylic paint formulations that turn to snot if you add any type of alcohol , and since the majority of lacquer thinners consist of several alcohols they cannot be used .
The new AK " 3rd Generation" acrylics is one of them . -- but their " Real Color " is a "lacquer acrylic " and is designed to be thinned with alcohols and their " lacquer thinner ".

There are modified alkyds ( enamel ) in rattle-cans such as Rustoleum's " 2X " series that utilize acetone and butyl acetate in the vehicle .
For reference , Tamiya's Extra Thin is half acetone and half butyl acetate .
These solvents provide superior adhesion on polystyrene but do not damage the plastic during application due to the concentrations involved .

 

[Marktastrophe]

This is all good info. I will absolutely refrain from pouring home improvement store thinners into by AB, always, lol.

But I am also happy to hear educated information confirming that Tamiya's Lacquer Thinner can safely be used, and that it wasn't just hearsay from someone thrice removed that had me putting Tamiya Lacquer Thinner in their X and XF range of acrylics.

Testing on sprues when I'm getting a little bold with my mixology is also a really good idea

 

[urumomo]

Yes , actual testing has no substitute .
You can use generic lacquer thinners with the hobby " lacquer acrylics " but they're not tailored for the application .
They're kind of a kitchen sink of solvents . Mostly sold for cleaning applications .
Using a generic , hardware store brand might diminish the durability of the cured resin or affect overall adhesion and change the open time for the wet coating which may be bad or good depending on the environment .