Vallejo Questions

[Biskup]

I would say it's not mixed enough with Vallejo I always prepare the paint in paint try then I put it in the air brush. It's almost impossible to mix it well inside the airbrush. Second thing is that it might not by thinned enough. It's good to add some Tamiya thinner or some other alcohol based thinner it just works better.
Cheers
Lukasz

DO NOT ADD TAMIYA THINNER TO VALLEJO PAINT

I can not stress this enough, that is unless you like cleaning a gooey mess out of your airbrush.

Tamiya and Vallejo are both acrylics, but are not the same type of acrylic. Tamiya acrylic thinner will actually gel Vallejo paint.


DK....how much are you thinning it? Just sounds like it isn't thinned out quite enough.

I would recommend this if I wouldn't test it my self. The only trick is to add it after you add water.
Regards

 

[DreamKnight]

DK....how much are you thinning it? Just sounds like it isn't thinned out quite enough.

I'm gonna put aside the Tamiya thinner for the moment since I'm a bit wary on using Tamiya thinner with anything else other than Tamiya paints since Tamiya paints aren't really acrylic (from what I've seen from using it). Plus I wanna try and master the right ratios with water with Vallejo paints.

Let's see. I suck at measurements. In the 1/3 ounce cup, I fill it half with water, a drop or 2 retardant then I put in 4 drops of black. Stirred the hell out of it with a toothpiclk.

 

[Elm City Hobbies]

@ Biskup.........and I wouldn't have said not to use Tamiya Thinner if I hadn't of tried it myself. Tamiya Acrylic thinner will gel Vallejo paint, simple as that. Not the same type of thinner what so ever. Tamiya Acrylics are an isopropyl based paint, Vallejo is a water based acrylic paint, and won't mix with the Tamiya thinner. My Badger 200 is still screwed up because of that move, even after completely disassembling, and cleaning multiple times. Maybe cutting the tamiya thinner with water may help, but then what is the point, you may as well just use all water.

@DK.....do you have anything to mix the paint in first and then transfer it to the airbrush? Empty Badger bottle that you can put everything in, shake the heck out of it and then put in the airbrush.

Black tends to be thicker anyway, as it takes so much more pigment to make black, then it does white. Never had mine come out like toothpaste however, but it is the one I have that clogs the tip of the bottle up the most. Some of the metallics are almost as thick.

Also, you say you are using water....tap? Or Distilled? Shouldn't make a difference in the thinning, as water is water. I am just wondering, if you were using tap water, I am sure even in Hollywood....the water isn't pure like Paris Hilton....(LOL...bad joke I know), but maybe there is something in the water that is keeping it from mixing well.

I know the Vallejo thinner is pricey, and you need alot of it.....but it is still the best for thinning Vallejo for airbrushing.

 

[DreamKnight]

@DK.....do you have anything to mix the paint in first and then transfer it to the airbrush? Empty Badger bottle that you can put everything in, shake the heck out of it and then put in the airbrush.

Yeh I'll try that next. I just did a German Camo Black Brown on a pegasus and started from 2 drops and 2 again when it was all watery. Another two cause it was still watery. Then another 2 and it started doing that thing with the black again.

I wonder if it's the airbrush? (I dunno why though) When I did the first test when I got the paints from you it was spraying nice and it was through my Anthem.

 

[Biskup]

@ Biskup.........and I wouldn't have said not to use Tamiya Thinner if I hadn't of tried it myself. Tamiya Acrylic thinner will gel Vallejo paint, simple as that. Not the same type of thinner what so ever. Tamiya Acrylics are an isopropyl based paint, Vallejo is a water based acrylic paint, and won't mix with the Tamiya thinner. My Badger 200 is still screwed up because of that move, even after completely disassembling, and cleaning multiple times. Maybe cutting the tamiya thinner with water may help, but then what is the point, you may as well just use all water.

Sorry about your airbrush I had totally different experience with that.
Cheers

 

[DreamKnight]

ok, I maybe having a little trouble adjusting to airbrushing with Vallejo but brush paint, I LOVE it. Using both Citadel and Vallejo right now and I just tossed Citadel aside. Vallejo applies so much fuller (I think that's how you'd describe it). But then my Citadels have been reactivated about 3 times already because of drying out.

 

[sunsanvil]

... maybe having a little trouble adjusting to airbrushing with Vallejo...

Trust me, try a shade or two from the ModelAir line.

 

[DreamKnight]

... maybe having a little trouble adjusting to airbrushing with Vallejo...

Trust me, try a shade or two from the ModelAir line.

I will but ONLY when I figure out how to get my problem solved with Model Colors

 

[sunsanvil]

As Elm says exact ideal ratios vary based on color due to pigment content and type, but generally speaking a 50/50 mix of ModelColor and either their thinner or water (or combination thereof) should produce an adequately fluid solution. Of all the ModelColor shades I have there is only one I can recall ("intense blue") which needed a fair bit more thinning than that.

The correct mix will seem a tad bit heavy if you are used to solvent based paints but it WILL go on nice and fine (use at least 20psi). It may also appear thick on the model to the newly initiated but these paints have fantastic shrinking qualities as they cure. Come back in an hour and the coat will look finer than when you applied it.

I keep my water in a $0.99 bottle from Michale's which has an almost identical dropper to the one on the Vallejo bottles. Makes it dead simple to get a given ratio (10 drops of water...10 drops paint....or whatever).

 

[Elm City Hobbies]

I do have some nice shiney new "VALLEJO" mixing bottles for just that thing, nice graduated scale on the side, great dropper top, and relatively cheap!

 

[DreamKnight]

I do have some nice shiney new "VALLEJO" mixing bottles for just that thing, nice graduated scale on the side, great dropper top, and relatively cheap!

I'll pick up some on my next vallejo order from ya

 

[AKE]

The odd thing I discovered with Vallejo and alcohol is it only works half the time and depends on the color. On some colors it mixes fine, with others it gels. I cannot remember which colors work, but I know orange turns into cottage cheese. That is why you two had different experiences.

 

[DreamKnight]

The odd thing I discovered with Vallejo and alcohol is it only works half the time and depends on the color. On some colors it mixes fine, with others it gels. I cannot remember which colors work, but I know orange turns into cottage cheese. That is why you two had different experiences.

ECH can verify but some paint are alcohol based and some are water based. I'm not sure which though. I read it somewhere while trying to figure out my problem. I've been watching your vids on some painting tips. I have to forgo getting artistic and just paint to play. Or at least base colors in and I can go back and be artistic. lol

 

[sunsanvil]

If you are talking about within the Vallejo line itself, virtually everything is alcohol/solvent free. There are literally just a handful of metallic colors in the ModelColor line which are in an alcohol base.

Its worth pointing out here that Vallejo's thinner is not really a thinner in the classic sense. Reducer might be a more appropriate term. Put a couple drops in your pallet and leave overnight: next morning you have a translucent blob, almost like a matt medium. Point being you must shake it before using as if it were paint (if you dont you should see a lump of white stuff at the bottom of the bottle and you wont be getting the whole "mix").

 

[sunsanvil]

I'll pick up some on my next vallejo order from ya

I grabbed one last time I was in. They are really nice: graduated in ml with the same flip top with dropper as the new (big) primer bottle. Absolutely perfect for doing custom color mixes (which I've been doing a lot of lately...and I forget my ratios sometimes so it will be good to just keep some of each mix on hand) but a little too nice IMO to use for day to day mixing of paint and thinner/water (be a pain to clean out each time).

 

[Elm City Hobbies]

Yeah the only ones that are alcohol based are a few of their metallics. They were in a larger bottle, with a regular top on them that you open to dip your brush in.

Any of the colors in any of the Model Color, Model Air, Game Color, or Panzer Aces, that come in the 17ml dropper top bottle, are alcohol/solvent free.

Just a note, after posing the question of a larger bottle of thinner to Alex Vallejo, he got back to me this morning to tell me that a 60ml bottle was just about ready to ship to suppliers, and that a 200ml bottle was on the production line.

No idea of price or when they will be available as of yet.

 

[DreamKnight]

If you are talking about within the Vallejo line itself, virtually everything is alcohol/solvent free. There are literally just a handful of metallic colors in the ModelColor line which are in an alcohol base.

Its worth pointing out here that Vallejo's thinner is not really a thinner in the classic sense. Reducer might be a more appropriate term. Put a couple drops in your pallet and leave overnight: next morning you have a translucent blob, almost like a matt medium. Point being you must shake it before using as if it were paint (if you dont you should see a lump of white stuff at the bottom of the bottle and you wont be getting the whole "mix").

So then is their reducers and thinner the same thing really? the reducer is REALLY thick stuff. Like hair gel.

For the airbrush, it worked a little better when I premixed it before putting it in the cup (still trying to get used to figuring out what the right formula is). The Velocity is black so it's hard to see what's going on in the cup. The paint does separate from the dilution though after a while (saw it happening in the container I mixed it in). Is that natural? or is there something I'm doing wrong?

It happens in the cup too. When it gets watery again I dump it back into the container and mix again and pour it back into the cup. I'm just using water. I try adding some Vallejo Thinner to it and stuff. I think I just have to play with it more.

This is REALLY annoying and to the point where I may just go back to Tamiya. I really don't want to have to spend all this time to dick with the paint on every model. Just used the Vallejo for brush painting miniatures. THAT comes out really nice. Really easy to use and love it over Citadel.

 

[Elm City Hobbies]

I think it is just a matter of playing with the thinning ratios. I personally don't mix mine with water, and use the thinner (thinner/reducer...same thing).

Give the Model Air a try before you give up completely, and it is just a straight dispense and shoot, just not as many colors to choose from.

I have been using these for airbrushing for about 5-6 yrs, the first couple there was some frustration, but after awhile I got the hang of thinning them. I never said it was easy, but in the end the results speak for themselves.

 

[Jeep]

I think it is normal for them to separate, that's why the airsoft BB trick came about. It might be exasperated in the Cali climate. I really have not airbrushed with mine so much yet, I had to do a lot of experimentation to get them to work so I stuck with Tamiya and Modelmaster so far. I am interested to find out what works though the color range is so very broad.

 

[sunsanvil]

I'm just using water. I try adding some Vallejo Thinner to it and stuff. I think I just have to play with it more.

Yea, I think your problem is at least in part the fact that you are trying to use water to thin ModelColor for airbrushing. Yes it can work, but categorically speaking it is not the best. Their thinner product is by far the foolproof choice.

To answer your other question, yes even when thinning with their thinner product, its not uncommon to see a little separation as a white streak on the surface in the cup half way through doing a coat, but simply swishing the airbrush a bit is enough to mix it back up enough to finish the coat.

PS, if you do try a few shades of ModelAir, for my part I've found they double very well for brush painting (just goes on a little finer).